Daniel Wild On How Divisive The Calma-Langton Model For The Voice Will Be on 2GB

On June 16, IPA Deputy Executive Director Daniel Wild joined Ben Fordham to discuss new analysis of the Calma-Langton report and what it tells us about the potential operation of the proposed Voice to Parliament.

All media appearances posted onto the IPA website are directly related to the promotion and dissemination of IPA research.

Below is a transcript of the interview.

Ben Fordham:

Well, big corporations are throwing their weight behind the Indigenous Voice. A new list has been published by the Financial Review. It reveals 14 of the top 20 ASX companies are backing in the Voice. ANZ, who we’ve just been talking about, BHP, West Farmers, Coles, Woodside, so some of our biggest banks and mining giants and retail groups, supermarkets, energy companies, they’re all jumping on board. Daniel Wild is the Deputy Executive Director of the Institute of Public Affairs. They’ve put out some new research today on the Voice, and he joins us in the studio. Daniel Wild, thanks for coming in.

Daniel Wild:

Morning, Ben.

Ben Fordham:

Corporate Australia’s on board.

Daniel Wild:

They are, Ben, and I think Australians have their gut full of being preached to by the big corporates and civic organizations, sporting codes, who are all backing in the Voice to Parliament. Look, we know that this is pretty split in the community, about 50/50 support the Voice and about 50 are against it. So look, Australians don’t want to have corporates telling them what they can and can’t do.

To me, this gets to a much bigger issue which is that the debate on this is far from free and fair. We’ve got, as you mentioned, big corporates, but millions of dollars being pushed into the Yes campaign. We’ve got government that’s stacking the deck in favor of the Yes vote. The prime minister’s been clear that he doesn’t want to give details. So this is a major permanent change to our constitution, the biggest one ever contemplated since federation, and I think corporate should stick to their knitting and get out of it.

Ben Fordham:

You have released a report today, or you’re going to be, you’re revealing it here for the first time. This looks into the Calma-Langton report. Now, when I interviewed Anthony Albanese in mid-January this year, time and time again, and I think you highlight that interview in your report today, he keeps saying, “Go and read the Calma-Langton report.” So you’ve done some analysis of that report?

Daniel Wild:

Yeah, that’s right, Ben. On your show, he mentioned it four times and he’s done it many times since. He said, “Go look at the detail.” But, we’ve looked at the detail and this reinforces the concerns that Australians have. We’re told that the Voice to Parliament is supposed to be about recognition, it’s supposed to be about disadvantage, but when you go through the report, it’s clear that this is an activist document designed by activists. To give you one example, for every one mention of disadvantage, there’s 10 mentions of gender. It is littered with diversity and inclusion. It is not a plan for alleviating disadvantage.

This is a plan for the establishment of a permanent bureaucracy of activist classes in Australia. And it’s shocking, Ben, that in the document, the word “democracy” is not even referenced once. Again, this is a permanent change to our constitution. This 270-page document that the prime minister has consistently said is the foundation of the Voice referendum does not even talk about how it’s consistent with our liberal democratic traditions.

Ben Fordham:

What do we know when it comes to the cost of the whole thing?

Daniel Wild:

What we know, it’s going to be a massive cost blowout. We estimate based on the details in this report that the wage bill alone, the annual wage bill for politicians and staffers could be in the order of $600 million every single year.

Ben Fordham:

Hang on. How do you calculate that?

Daniel Wild:

That’s based on what they say. There’ll be 24 members in this National Voice to Parliament. Now, don’t forget, it’s not just one voice. There’s 36 voices. There’s one voice in the nation at the national level, there’s 35 local and regional voices. If you have 24 politicians and all those voices, every back bench MP gets five staffers. You look at their wages, they get in excess of 200 grand a year for a backbench MP.

Ben Fordham:

But do we know that members of the Voice are going to be paid?

Daniel Wild:

Well, yeah. I think that that’s pretty clear that they’re going to be paid. I can’t imagine a scenario whereby they’re not going to be paid.

Ben Fordham:

But we don’t know that, right? That’s the bottom line. We don’t know that. I remember asking the Prime Minister in that interview at the start of the year, are they going to be appointed or elected? Are they going to be paid? Are they going to have a headquarters? And he kept on saying, “all of that’ll be worked out later on.”

Daniel Wild:

But it can’t be worked out later on. What the prime minister is saying to Australians is, “You’ve got to give me a constitutional blank check. You’re going to tell me, ‘Yes, I’m going to go ahead with this idea, but I’ll give you the details after you voted.'” That’s totally unacceptable in our democracy. We need to have a debate about this.

I go back to the ’99 referendum over the republic. John Howard was a staunch monarchist, but he made sure that there was a fair debate. We had a constitutional convention, so the details were examined. There was equal funding for both sides. Everybody had a fair go. Yes, if you were on the Republic side and you lost, you were disappointed, but no one could complain about the outcome.

Ben Fordham:

We’ve got Daniel Wild with us in the studio, the deputy executive director of the Institute of Public Affairs. They’ll be releasing a report today into the Calma-Langton report. So the prime minister keeps on saying that this is going to bring the country together. You are going to reveal in your report today that it’s going to do the opposite.

Daniel Wild:

It’s already doing the opposite, sadly. It’s a 50/50 proposition at best, and I think that’s sad because there are other ways of achieving recognition that would bring us together. For example, a modest preamble in the constitution rather than a new chapter. And this is what’s been proposed by conservative prime ministers like John Howard and Tony Abbott. That’s something the community would get behind, but this is a very divisive debate.

Don’t forget the whole edifice of the Voice to Parliament, the whole basis of it, is one group of Australians would get extra and separate political and legal rights compared to everybody else. That violates the foundational principle of our nation, which is one person, one vote. That’s why it’s so divisive.

And again, the prime minister’s saying, “Don’t worry about it. I’m going to talk about the details later.” No, we need the details now. We need to have a proper debate. The bill to allow the referendum go ahead is going to pass next week. The prime minister has one last chance to be upfront with the Australian people.

Ben Fordham:

He’s got an opportunity to change the proposal, doesn’t he? Even though Peter Dutton’s already come out and said, “No, I’m going to be voting No, and I’m going to be opposing it and campaigning against it.” There’s still an opportunity for the Prime Minister to remove the words executive government that will bring some liberals across to the Yes side.

Now, what about the Uluru Statement? Because the PM loves talking about the Calma-Langton report. He also loves talking about the Uluru Statement. But as we pointed out, there’s three pillars to that statement. One is the Voice, the second is Treaty, the third, Truth Telling, but they don’t really want to talk about two and three.

Daniel Wild:

No, that’s right. The Voice is clearly the start of a much more radical, broader plan that they have. Many Australians would be concerned about the idea of having a treaty. I mean, a nation can’t have a treaty with itself, so it would permanently break up our country. This is why it’s so important that there is a proper debate. You are also probably aware that Marcia Langton one of the authors of the Calma-Langton report, is herself a fairly radical activist. Reports yesterday of a recent speech that she gave said this: “Our constitution is racist. It was designed as a racist constitution.” That’s what Marcia Langton said, the author of this report that the prime minister keeps referring to. And I think a lot of Australians would be concerned that somebody like that apparently has the ear of the prime minister and would have a permanent place in our Canberra bureaucracy if the Voice gets up.

Ben Fordham:

We’ve said all year here on this program that it’ll be happening in October. I believe that it’s going to be happening shortly after the Rugby League and AFL Grand Finals to really exploit that support that they’ve got from the major sporting codes. How do you see the result going?

Daniel Wild:

Look, at the moment it’s pretty split, Ben. If you look at the polls, three states are currently No and that would be enough to stop it because as you know, you need a majority of people across the nation. Plus, you need four out of the six states to back it in. But no matter what happens, the nation’s going to be divided. Whether it wins or loses, it’s going to be a close call. I would ask the prime minister to go back to the drawing board, look at more modest ideas of recognition rather than the Voice.

Don’t forget, the Voice backers are saying, “Look, the Voice to Parliament is the only way we can recognise Indigenous Australians.” That is absolutely false. There are other ways which are less risky and have all the benefits of the Voice and none of the costs. There’s still an opportunity to do that. If he wants to unite the country, he should go back to the drawing board.

Ben Fordham:

Okay, we’ll read more of your report. It’s being released today. Thanks so much for sharing it with us first.

Daniel Wild:

Thanks, Ben. Pleasure.

This transcript with Daniel Wild talking on 2GB from 16 June 2023 has been edited for clarity.