In this interview, Mia Schlicht appeared on The Bolt Report – Sky News Australia to discuss the IPA’s research on the cost of prisons.
All media appearances posted onto the IPA website are directly related to the promotion and dissemination of IPA research.
Below is a transcript of the interview.
James Macpherson:
Now look, everybody knows that the Victorian state coffers are emptier than a politician’s promise, but there may be a way for Labour Premier Jacinta Allen to generate much needed revenue, aside from taxing everything that moves. I mean, the Institute of Public Affairs has put out a report suggesting the Victorian government could make $290 million a year by leasing out vacant prison cells. States like Queensland and South Australia, where prisons will soon be at capacity, could pay Victoria to house their felons. Victoria, the incarceration state, I like the sound of it. Imagine the number plates made, of course, by interstate criminals Victoria’s being paid to babysit. Its genius.
Mia Schlicht, a research fellow at the Institute of Public Affairs, joins me now. Mia, welcome to the programme. I am intrigued by this proposal. But before we get into the substance of it, I have to say, I think a lot of people would be surprised to hear Victorian jails weren’t already full.
Mia Schlicht:
Yeah. Thanks for having me, James. Look, I’m sure many Victorians are quite surprised that their prisons aren’t full, especially given the context of the crime crises that we’re seeing on our street with far too many violent offenders who are basically being let off the hook for committing very extreme offences, and quite rightly so. I think many Victorians are disappointed that those criminals aren’t facing consequences. But what I think Victorian taxpayers would be even more surprised by is just how much they are paying to keep these empty prison cells afloat. I mean, just for an example, in Geelong, there was the Western Plains Correction Centre, which cost $1 billion to construct. It sat empty for two years, and taxpayers spent 36 million per year keeping those cells open.
James Macpherson:
So that’s Victoria. They’ve got cells available, God knows why, with the state of Victoria. But you say there is a lack of prison cells in other states. Tell me about that, and then your proposal to fix it all.
Mia Schlicht:
That’s right. So unlike Victoria, there are many states around the country who are actually struggling with the capacity crisis. For example, in Western Australia, we have reports coming in last year that there were prisoners sleeping on mattresses on the floor of prison cells because there weren’t enough beds. Or in Queensland, there were stories about prisoners being held in police watchtowers because they didn’t have capacity. Now, we know that constructing prisons is an extremely expensive thing to do, so the IPA has proposed that we could help out these states rather than them needing to build more prisons. They could actually just send their excess prisoners here, and then we could use that revenue that is earned to reinvest into the criminal justice system.
James Macpherson:
I guess it’s not a completely novel idea. I mean, a couple of hundred years ago, the Brits did it, didn’t they? Has this been done before in Australia?
Mia Schlicht:
Well, that’s right, it’s not a new idea. What we’ve looked at is this has worked very successfully in the United States. States like Mississippi and Oklahoma have seen huge success, and what they’ve done is they’ve reinvested that money that they’ve earned from leasing out those prison places into crime prevention, and that’s what we need here in Victoria. I mean, the reality is, this state is broke. There is no more money, and we know that the best way to deter crime is to put more police on the streets, but we don’t have money to do so. So let’s say if the IPA has proposed that the Victorian government could earn about $290 million a year from this proposal, some of that could be spent putting more police on our streets to stop crime before it happens and make our streets safer.
James Macpherson:
Just out of curiosity, what does it cost per year to house a prisoner in Victoria? What sort of money per person could the state generate if they were to say take, I don’t know, criminals from New South Wales?
Mia Schlicht:
Well, it varies quite significantly across Australia, but in Victoria it costs about $220,000 to house a single prisoner per year, that’s about $600 per day. So what we’ve proposed, obviously it would be a negotiation between various governments about what the rate would be, but we’ve said the rate should be at the marginal rate of housing a prisoner, and it would amount to about 290 million per year.
James Macpherson:
That would be an amazing thing, wouldn’t it? If law-abiding citizens were leaving Victoria for safer pastures while the state imported other states criminals. I’ve got to ask, so this is a suggestion from the IPA, it makes economic sense. I mean, is there any suggestion that anyone in the Victorian Labour government would consider this, would the liberal opposition take this on board?
Mia Schlicht:
Well, the Premier was asked about it today, and she didn’t have much to stay on it, but certainly we’ve been out in the community and they are sick and tired of a lack of action here in Victoria. Any criminal justice reform that’s been implemented has made the situation worse. I mean, just take one look at the bail laws, which have led us to this situation where violent criminals are not being locked away. So the reception from the community has been, let’s take this on. It’s a novel idea. It’s worked in the United States. There’s evidence for it. If we want to get tough on crime, we have to start getting smart on crime and reforms like this are the way to go.
James Macpherson:
It could also bring down the crime rate in other states. I mean, if people knew, you get convicted and jailed, you could end up in Victoria, maybe people would stop committing crimes. Mia Schlicht, always good to talk to you. Thanks so much. Interesting proposal.
This transcript of Mia Schlicht talking on The Bolt Report – Sky News Australia from 6 October 2025 has been edited for clarity.
