In this interview, Mia Schlicht appeared on National Nine News to discuss the IPA’s research on the cost of prisons.
All media appearances posted onto the IPA website are directly related to the promotion and dissemination of IPA research.
Below is a transcript of the interview.
Stephanie Anderson:
Well leasing empty prison cells to house interstate inmates could net Victoria hundreds of millions of dollars a year according to a new report by the Institute of Public Affairs. Now to talk us through the details, I’m joined by Mia Schlicht, a research fellow from the institute. Mia, thanks for your time this afternoon. What are you proposing?
Mia Schlicht:
Good afternoon. Thanks for having me. So here in Victoria, we are in the midst of a crime crisis, and it’s clear that we need more resources to put more police on the beat to stop crime before it happens. But the problem in Victoria is that the state is out of money. The state is broke pretty much. So what we’ve proposed is here in Victoria, there’s a very unique situation that unlike other states across the country, our prisons are not at capacity. So what we could do here is lease out about 20% of our prison places, and that could generate an income that could then be reinvested into putting more police on the streets.
Stephanie Anderson:
So how much space do you believe we’ve got that could be excess and potentially used for interstate prisoners?
Mia Schlicht:
In Victoria, prisons are currently at about 70% of their designed capacity. At the IPA, we propose that about 20% of that space could then be leased out to allow for a bit of leeway here, because at the moment in Victoria, there are far too many violent criminals here who should be incarcerated. And that needs to be the first priority because anyone who poses a risk to community safety needs to be locked away. So that should be the first priority. And then for those empty spaces, they could be leased out. And annually that could generate an income of about $290 million per year.
Stephanie Anderson:
You did touch on though we do have crime at a record high here in Victoria. So isn’t it risky for us to be using the space that we do have for other interstate criminals? Don’t we have enough of a problem here ourselves?
Mia Schlicht:
Well, it’s an important point, and the reason that we construct prisons is because they should be used to isolate and detain those violent criminals who do pose the community a safety threat to the community around them. That is the community expectation, and that needs to be the first priority. However, that also brings us to a point that in Victoria, about 42% of our prisoners have been incarcerated for non-violent crimes. So there’s also an aspect of this reform that we could look at is punishing those criminals who do not pose a community safety threat for things such as fraud, white-collar crimes, minor level theft. Perhaps they could be removed from prison and punished in other ways, and that would create more space in prisons for violent criminals. And the removal of those non-violent offenders, that money saved could also be reinvested into preventative strategies.
Stephanie Anderson:
Right. Okay. Look, another issue for me I can see is the staffing levels in prisons have long been an issue, having enough staff to deal with the prison population. Wouldn’t increasing their workload only make that issue even worse?
Mia Schlicht:
There’s definitely a problem, particularly here in Victoria with staffing levels across our prison. But part of that problem is that Victoria just doesn’t have the money to invest in staff and to ensure their retention. So here through this proposal, by generating an extra income, that money could also be invested into ensuring that our prisons are adequately staffed.
Stephanie Anderson:
Look, your proposal has been put to the Premier today. She’s categorically said she wouldn’t take corrections advice from the Institute of Public Affairs. Mia, what’s your response to that?
Mia Schlicht:
The Institute of Public Affairs for a long time now has advocated for sensible criminal justice reform. We’ve always said that in order to get tough on crime, we need to get smart on crime. And these ideas, they’re not new. They’ve actually been used in the United States in conservative jurisdictions like Texas, Georgia, Oklahoma for a long time now. And what these jurisdictions have found is not only do they save taxpayer money by being smarter about who they lock away in prison, but they’ve also seen crime rates decrease because they could invest those savings into deterring crime from happening in the first place. And I would say that that’s what all Victorians expect from our Premier, is to show some leadership to ensure that we bring these crime rates down. Because at the moment, there are far too many families and communities suffering at the hand of violent crime.
Stephanie Anderson:
Okay, look, it certainly started some conversations today. Mia Schlicht from the Institute of Public Affairs. Thanks for your time.
Mia Schlicht:
Thank you.
This transcript of Mia Schlicht talking on National Nine News from 6 October 2025 has been edited for clarity.
