Rafael Epstein:
Joining us to talk about the news of the week is Emma Dawson. Emma is the Executive Director of the Chiefley Research Centre. Good morning, Emma.
Emma Dawson:
Good morning.
Rafael Epstein:
And Colleen Harkin, Director of Education at the Institute of Public Affairs. Good morning, Colleen.
Colleen Harkin:
Good morning to you both.
Rafael Epstein:
I do want to start with the teacher’s union. We need to talk about Pauline Hanson. We need to talk about the federal budget and maybe even the impact of One Nation on the state election in November. But just on the Teachers Union, Michael is calling from Lower Templestowe. You’ve heard in the news that teachers members rejected that pay deal. Michael, what do you want to say?
Michael:
Hey, Raf. Thanks for taking my call. Look, this is not an unexpected result. This was a really poor deal and teachers when they did the sums firstly on the pay rise, but more importantly, when they considered their working conditions and the conditions of ES staff who were some of the lowest paid workers in the state system, could just say that it was a patch up job to try and get through the issue to clear the decks before the state election.
Rafael Epstein:
So, predictable. Interesting, Michael. Colleen, I’ll start with you. I want to know what you think, but I also want to know what you think will happen.
Colleen Harkin:
Look, I want to say first up, I’m a huge supporter of teachers. I think they do an incredible job, but rejecting a 28% pay raise, I think the average person is going to look at that and be pretty surprised. I know they wanted 35, I think it was. But it doesn’t matter how much money you throw at them. It doesn’t solve the job of the impossible tasks that they’ve been asked to do. A teacher’s job is literally impossible these days. The amount of red tape they have to do, the lack of discipline in the classrooms, the academic standards, there’s been this proliferation of individual learning programmes. Well, they might have four or five kids who have to have an individual programme and that means, individual meetings, that means individual submissions. It’s an extraordinarily impossible job, and throwing more money at it is not going to solve the problem.
So, I don’t support them rejecting the pay rise. I want them to be paid well, to do a job, but we’ve got to address what jobs you’re actually being asked to do. Right now, there’s 16% of all six-year-old boys in Australia are on NDIS, and 70% of all new entries into NDIS are kids under 15. So, that’s all kids in school. You can’t possibly run a regular school with that level of individual requirements and schools were never meant to be places of individual tuition. It’s impossible. So, throwing more money at teachers is just not addressing the problem at all.
Rafael Epstein:
What do you think about the rejection pay, Emma?
Emma Dawson:
Look, they’ve rejected an offer that was 75% of their claim, which was high to start with. I think people have had a lot of sympathy for teachers so far. I think that sympathy may run out if they strike again, particularly over winter, after the school holidays. But what it reveals to… Look, I don’t disagree with a lot of what Colleen said there, actually. I think the conditions and the expectations that are put on our public school system compared to the level of resourcing they have is really out of whack. Parents can be very unreasonable and those expect… One of the issues here is the education support workers do a lot of that individualised stuff in the classroom.
Rafael Epstein:
Well, parents are completely unreasonable, aren’t they?
Emma Dawson:
Yeah.
Rafael Epstein:
We’ve all seen that with our kids in school.
Emma Dawson:
Absolutely. The interesting thing here is that the union did recommend, and I heard you talking to the union rep before-
Rafael Epstein:
Justin Mullaly.
Emma Dawson:
Yeah, Justin. They did recommend that this past and it’s been rejected and soundly rejected. 57% said no, even though the union said this is a pretty good deal. This speaks to the broader feeling out there in the community that everything else we’re going to talk about today, that people just feel they cannot get ahead. They feel really stretched, whether they’re teachers, whether they’re nurses, whether they’re retail workers, or office workers, people are working every hour they can, both paid and unpaid, and they just don’t feel like they can get ahead. That’s when this industrial action starts to occur.
So, it’s a bigger issue than just Victorian teachers, but it is acute in our state. We don’t have a deal with the Commonwealth for schools funding. If I can go to a bigger issue, we still put far too much public money into private schools and not enough into public schools. The only other thing I’d say is, throwing money at it, Colleen. I agree that the issues are broader than just what you’re paid, but if we need more staff and more people working in classrooms to deliver those programmes, then we do need to make it a more attractive occupation.
Colleen Harkin:
But you can’t do that. So, a teacher’s job is to teach, not to do paperwork and not to do submissions. Most teachers want to actually do what they were trained to do.
Emma Dawson:
Yes, that’s true.
Colleen Harkin:
That’s the core job of getting kids to read and write. Right now, the average 15-year old is about a year and a half behind academically where they were 15 years ago.
Rafael Epstein:
And that’s a problem. Just briefly to both of you, is it a political problem? Because in the old days, oh my God, state government, go to election, teachers striking, that would dominate. Is it a significant political problem for the state government?
Colleen Harkin:
Maybe, yeah. I think it could become one. I think most people get frustrated at any strike if it interferes with their life. I think a lot of parents, to your point, Emma, I think if it continues, their sympathy will subside, but I think there are bigger problems-
Rafael Epstein:
There are big issues. Yeah.
Colleen Harkin:
… in Victoria. There’s a lot of other big-
Rafael Epstein:
We’ll get to those. Is it a big political problem?
Emma Dawson:
Yeah. I think it is. I think it points to, like Colleen said, some strikes people don’t notice. When your kids can’t go to school, you notice. That then affects your ability to get to work and your ability to make ends meet. So, it’s just piling pain on pain on pain. I do think it’s a political challenge in the lead up to the election, and I think the government will be a little surprised that this still was so resoundingly rejected, but like I said, points to bigger issues in our community and economy.
Rafael Epstein:
Emma Dawson and Colleen Harkin are with you on 774. I’ll get to the leadership rumbling that wasn’t and we’ll get to the leader on the rise in Pauline Hanson as well. But Catherine Cheltenham on that teacher’s deal. What did you want to point out to us, Kath?
Kath:
Hi, Raf. I actually texted in and I got a lovely phone call back. I just wanted to say I’m 61. I started teaching in 1988, and I have worked in the Catholic primary system. I’ve worked in the state secondary system. What makes me really sad is it’s not about the money. I voted no. It’s not about the money. It’s about the conditions that we work in, and I’m one of the older people on staff, but the average age in our school, and I work in a fantastic school in the Southeast where we have a lot of problem kids who’ve been through a lot of trauma.
The average age of teachers is under 30. The system is in crisis and I’m really sad because I think that when I retire in 3 or 4 years time and even now, I’m going to leave the system worse than it was when I started in the ’80s. It’s devastating. I actually, because I teach kids to read. I’m teaching kids in year seven to nine to read. They are coming into school with grade three literacy levels. What really worries me is that we have all these marks that we have to hit, and it’s not recognised that we’re told through policy that we have to do all these particular things, but it’s not taking into account the needs of the kids.
Rafael Epstein:
I hear Kath, all of the things that both Emma and Colleen were talking about, how hard teachers are working. Thank you for your work. Thanks for explaining why you voted no. I know you guys both want to dive into that, but I want to divert to you. Colleen, leadership thing didn’t happen. There was speculation. They were clearly talking about it inside the state Labour government. I don’t see Jacinta Allan going anywhere. Broad political view, does it make a difference to the debate? Does it make a difference to the result of the election who is leading the Labour Party?
Colleen Harkin:
Yes, I think it does. I’m with you. I thought that she was going to go. I’d been thinking that was going to happen-
Rafael Epstein:
I did not think she was going to go, but still.
Colleen Harkin:
I don’t mean just now. I thought at some stage before the election, I thought that she would be changed. I think Ben Carroll’s missed his opportunity. If he ever had any ambition to be the leader, I think that’s gone. But I don’t think leaders… There’ve been plenty of times where leaders have been very unpopular, but not this unpopular. There’s been a couple of times that people like Tony Abbot hit the polls of negative 57 or whatever she is, and that can survive for a while, but I think it’s terminal. I think it is fatal.
Rafael Epstein:
So, the person at the top makes a difference?
Colleen Harkin:
Yes, I think it does because they’re the champion of the brand and they’re the face and the… We saw last time with Daniel Andrews when he removed four high profile ministers all in one day, it made a difference to people’s perspectives. So, yeah, I think it will make a difference. From the Liberal Party’s point of view, I think she should stay.
Rafael Epstein:
I guess actually to bolster your point, there does appear to be a difference in their prospects with Jess Wilson, even though they’ve lost significant… Since she’s taken over, Jess Wilson, they have lost way more points in the polls than Brad Baton ever lost or all the others ever lost. But I think her team, feel that she’s doing a good job. So, there might be a contrast there.
Colleen Harkin:
Yeah. I think that it’s the face of the brand and I think that matters.
Rafael Epstein:
Emma, does it matter if it’s just Jacinta or someone else?
Emma Dawson:
I think this is an unusual situation. It’s an old government. It’s been in there for a long time. Jacinta has taken over from previously, regardless of what people think quite popular prime-
Rafael Epstein:
Resoundingly prime. Won three elections. Christie’s majority every time.
Emma Dawson:
I think that when you see things like this occur in the lead up to an election, it’s usually about, “Okay. Do we need to save seats?” I don’t think there’s a demonstrable case that in this situation a change of leader would save seats. I think what we’re seeing is a lot of people votes shifting away from Labour to various places, particularly polling around One Nation, but how that translates into seats held and seats lost, I think is quite different than what we usually have to deal with. So, I don’t think there’s a huge benefit in changing leaders now. I think Jacinta is a good leader. I think she has had a particularly challenging set of circumstances to preside over.
I don’t agree with you that Ben Carroll’s done his dash. I think Ben’s got a lot of potential. I know Ben personally, so I should flag that up front. I used to work with him many, many years ago. Don’t know him well, but did work with him for a while. I think that his time will come. His time will be right when his time is right. We need to see what plays out at the election. The polling at the moment in just in his own seat is not looking good. There may be no need depending on what happens at the election. But no, look, I also worry a little bit about this. It’s all about the leader. I know that’s been a feature of our politics for a long time.
Rafael Epstein:
For a while.
Colleen Harkin:
Yeah. We’ve turned into this presidential style politically. Yeah.
Rafael Epstein:
Gough Whitlam made a difference to Labour. So, we have had a bit of this.
Emma Dawson:
But yeah, I think people are going to vote on the government’s record overall.
Rafael Epstein:
1300-222-774 is the phone number. There’s the teacher strike. There’s the leadership change that wasn’t, whether or not that makes a difference. Then there is of course the biggest undercurrent in politics, which is the rise of One Nation. What does that actually mean? Is it real? Does it make a difference if Pauline Hanson gives a big speech at the press club? Does it make a difference what questions the journals in Canberra ask her? Give me a call. We’ll get back with more after this.
I do want to return to what Pauline Hanson said at the press club and also what’s going to happen. Will One Nation make a massive difference to the Victorian state election or not? But Tom’s just calling from Corfield just on the teacher’s rejection of the payoff. What do you want to say, Tom?
Tom:
Morning, Raf, and everybody else. Listen, I was listening to the education union rep president earlier and one of the comments he made was that their members rejected it because of lack of support for the education staff. My wife works in education. She’s a ES member at a government school, and no time during their campaign did they mention any benefits for their education staff. They’re severely underpaid for what they do, the hours they put in. It was nice to hear that the teachers have come out in support and the union wouldn’t support them. The union at no stage supported the education staff.
Rafael Epstein:
I hear you, Tom. I’ve heard that undercurrent before. Thank you for calling. It’s 19 minutes past 10. Colleen, I’m just going to pivot to something else. The One Nation fundraiser last week, last Friday night.
Colleen Harkin:
Last Friday.
Rafael Epstein:
You were there.
Colleen Harkin:
I was.
Rafael Epstein:
What was it like?
Colleen Harkin:
Look, I found it really interesting. Just for the record, I’ve been to Teal events and I’ve been to Liberty things and I’ve been to quite a few of them. It was actually really good. There were protesters outside that were loud, but there wasn’t very many of them. There was the disappointing thing about seeing 50 or 60 police and the waste of public money that’s necessary these days for stuff like that. But there weren’t very many of them. They were very loud. Inside the room, was a very high energy positive feel.
What interested me most was the spread of type of people who were there. That was a great interest to me. When we’ve had these conversations here about a presumption of people who have lower socioeconomic class or lack of academic qualifications or whatever One Nation supporters, and it was definitely not what was in the room. High profile business people, money, just a great spread of ordinary Australians.
Rafael Epstein:
Well, that’s the big difference this time, isn’t it? She’s got significant wealthy and institutional support.
Colleen Harkin:
A lot of people I spoke with had not really been politically engaged before, and just concerned about the direction of the country and the tenor of the country. It was very positive. They had a really like a positive energy and vibe in the room.
Rafael Epstein:
You texted me, it feels like a movement. Why?
Colleen Harkin:
Yeah. Definitely feels like a movement.
Rafael Epstein:
Why?
Colleen Harkin:
Because you can feel it. Do you know what I mean? I’ve been to lots of political things and there’s often this feeling of either seriousness or depression depending on at what time and where you are. But this had a-
Rafael Epstein:
It’s got energy.
Colleen Harkin:
Absolute energy. A real buzz.
Rafael Epstein:
Okay.
Colleen Harkin:
Yeah.
Rafael Epstein:
I just want to play one snippet that really fired up a lot of calls this week. I want to know if I remember what she puts… What’s the explanation for the significant rise. One thing that Pauline Hanson said was about, “Yes, we’re multiracial, but we should be monocultural.” This was one of her lines at the National Press Club.
Pauline Hanson:
We cannot be a multicultural society. We are a multiracial society, but we must be monocultural. Australians must live under the one cultural umbrella.
Rafael Epstein:
We need to live under one cultural umbrella. I’ll ask Emma about that in a tick. Kevin’s in Geelong. You watched the speech I think more than once. Kevin, what do you want to say?
Kevin:
Yes, I did. I was a little bit cranky that she was allowed to go on for as long as she did because it was quite a deliberate strategy. I thought at one stage the chair pulled her up and said, “How much longer is this going to go?” She said, “I’ve only got three or four more pages left.” It was a deliberate strategy to run down the clock, so she got less questions.
Rafael Epstein:
I’m not sure she ended up with less questions. I think the session went longer and they generally get 30 or 40 minutes of questions. So, I think that was the same.
Kevin:
They did.
Rafael Epstein:
Yeah. Good point to make though Kevin. No, this is an experienced politician. She knew exactly what she was doing. But to return to not so much Pauline Hanson, why now, Emma? Why is Pauline Hanson and One Nation? I have never in my life watching politics. I think it’s true to say while I’ve been alive, there’s been no other party polling in the 20s other than either Labour or the Coalition. So, why now?
Emma Dawson:
It’s not unique to Australia. It’s been coming for a while, and we’re seeing this dislocation of people’s political allegiances around the world. Why now? We’re at an inflexion point historically, and I think this is interesting about what Colleen’s saying about who’s in the room and I’ll try not to go on and on and go back in history too far. But if you look at times of big revolution, and big disruption to the political landscape globally, it’s when people in the middle classes get frustrated and unhappy and join a movement, if you want to call it a movement, that change starts to happen.
The Bolsheviks were not working class people. They were middle class intellectuals. What’s happened is actually we’ve got to a point in history where the economic and social construction of developed nations is no longer delivering improved living standards for a majority of people. So, people are saying this system is broken. I agree with them. I have agreed with them for a long, long time. The problem is that Pauline’s prescriptions to solve that, are not going to work.
Colleen Harkin:
I think that’s missing the point though, because I’m seeing that One Nation supporters are not so much economically driven.
Rafael Epstein:
Well, they’re not interested in solutions maybe.
Emma Dawson:
They’re not interested in solutions. They’re angry.
Colleen Harkin:
No, I think that’s incredibly unfair. I think that the big change has been mostly since Bondi. I think there is an emotional attachment to what’s happening to the country and the fracturing and the lack of vision. There’s definitely an economic component that I think-
Emma Dawson:
I think that was a tipping point. That was a tipping point.
Rafael Epstein:
I’m only going to constrain you just because I want to leave everyone some time, and I want to get to some calls and a tick, but I’ll ask you, Colleen, Pauline Hanson has described Islam as a disease. Pauline Hanson, I think it is fair to say, she mischaracterizes what most Muslims believe. There is a dark and nasty edge. She’s gone from swamped by Asians to swamped by Muslims. So, that’s an observation. Is that a significant driver and is that the same as what’s driving people to start saying yes to her after Bondi? Are they the same thing or are they different things?
Colleen Harkin:
I think there’s an element of overlap. I think that a lot of Australians are concerned about radical Islamism, right? They don’t have… They’re not concerned at all about a ordinary practising Muslim, but radical Islam, I think, Australians are concerned about. Allah Bondhi. And it goes to her comment about monoculture. It goes to what is Australia?
I don’t use the term multicultural. I say multi-ethnic because we do have a culture of our own and that’s-
Rafael Epstein:
Emma’s upset with you for this.
Colleen Harkin:
Yeah, I know.
Rafael Epstein:
So dive in, Emma. We’ll just let’s let Emma dive in.
Emma Dawson:
I just think this idea, Keating called it the myth of the monoculture, and he’s absolutely right. What’s the culture we sign up to? Do we have to choose between AFL and NRL?
Colleen Harkin:
No, well, that’s absurd.
Emma Dawson:
No, no. I’m serious here. The only countries in the world that have monocultures tend to be dictatorships.
Colleen Harkin:
You’re not acknowledging that Australia has a culture.
Emma Dawson:
Colleen…
Rafael Epstein:
Colleen, let Emma go, and then I’ll bring Colleen back.
Emma Dawson:
Australia has a culture and it is multicultural because we have had, since the Second World War, significant immigration, all of us have come from somewhere else within a few generations. Our multiculturalism is not about separatism. It is when you see places like France where you have people living in ethnic enclaves, that is because they have an assimilationist approach. We had an approach of saying, and this is where we will agree, “You can bring the best of your culture with you.” We don’t want the worst, right? But exploiting that fear of extremism is what Colleen has always done. And this is just her latest time.
Rafael Epstein:
Okay, briefly.
Colleen Harkin:
So you’re using multicultural. We shouldn’t have multicultural. We have multiethnic.
Rafael Epstein:
So what’s our culture? You tell me what’s our culture.
Colleen Harkin:
We all have different ethnic backgrounds. Well, it’s things like the rule of law. It’s things about having parliamentary democracy.
Emma Dawson:
But that’s not culture, that’s law.
Colleen Harkin:
But it is the foundation of our culture. And not every country believes in what we believe, and not every culture believes in what we believe, for sure.
Rafael Epstein:
But is there seriously a large number of people who don’t-
Colleen Harkin:
It doesn’t have to be a large.
Emma Dawson:
No.
Colleen Harkin:
It has to be influential.
Emma Dawson:
But they’re not.
Colleen Harkin:
And I think… Well-
Rafael Epstein:
Are they influential?
Emma Dawson:
They’re not.
Rafael Epstein:
How is Islamic state influential in Australia?
Emma Dawson:
They’re not influential in Australia.
Colleen Harkin:
Well, for example, I think a lot of Australians would be very concerned about the return of the ISIS brides.
Rafael Epstein:
Sure, sure.
Colleen Harkin:
And what is happening.
Rafael Epstein:
But they’re not influential.
Colleen Harkin:
Yes, they are.
Rafael Epstein:
Are they? How?
Colleen Harkin:
Well, because we have people like Tony Burt who says, “You shouldn’t assimilate. Don’t assimilate.” And they what?
Rafael Epstein:
I’m not sure they’re the same thing, but I just want to press pause there only because I want to bring in some of the people who’ve called into the station. But it’s good. You’re getting at some of the tensions there. So I’m liking that. But I want Nigel to have his say in Mooney Ponds. What do you want to mention, Nigel?
Nigel:
I’d say the biggest change, I’m lucky enough to live in every state and territory, a union leader, run for federal parliament. And I’ve seen the change in the alpha males who wanted nothing to do with politics. All of a sudden, they’re like me, they’re just retired and all of a sudden they’ve got, I call it the Dutch courage. They’re speaking up. They would never speak up at union meetings or ALP meetings.
Rafael Epstein:
So what’s driving that? If you’re saying a whole lot of people are now more interested in politics, why?
Nigel:
Absolutely. Because they’ve found that they’ve got an area to complain about, to do something. They’ve got a bit of courage for once. But unfortunately, I’ve seen the organisation, what happens in Queensland, and they’ve had a few wins. And being an old ALP man, I’ve had huge losses. We’ve been wiped out, but we come back again where it won’t happen with the One Nation, unfortunately.
Rafael Epstein:
We’ll see, Nigel. Can I get a final word from both of you, because I know you’ve both got lots of ideas. I’ll just give you … Emma was getting at something. What’s the culture? Tell me about the words that you use, because it’s very difficult to define the boundaries of what we want most people to reside in. What’s your vision? When you say, “Not multicultural,” what’s your vision?
Colleen Harkin:
Yeah. And it’s not to reject ethnicity. That’s the key. And I think that the language is important because … My father came from Ireland, hugely dysfunctional country when he left. And his view of the world was you come here and you bring all the good things with you, and you leave your troubles behind. But that’s not what’s happening in Australia. And I think that’s what is a lot of people are looking at and going, “We don’t want all of these problems from the rest of the world on our streets. We want to maintain that level of multi-ethnic.
For all of the 20th century, we had 100,000 immigrants every year and we considered ourselves a very successful multi-ethnic country. We’ve had a huge influx of lots of people and everything, not everything, it’s hyperbole. Lots of things are starting to break at the edges and people are very concerned. I think that’s what a lot of the movement is.
Rafael Epstein:
So she summed up, I think, well, what some people think there, Emma. What’s the counter to that?
Emma Dawson:
The counter to that is this. Every latest arrival group throughout history, right back to the Second World War has been targeted as not assimilating or not fitting in. It’s not true and it is not true that people, the vast majority, I would say, over minuscule amount of people would not want to leave their troubles behind. It’s why they come to Australia in the first place.
The other thing I’d say is there’s a country in the world that has a very successful, multi-ethnic but completely assimilationist culture, which is, it doesn’t matter what the colour of your skin is. You’ll see more people of colour on television in corridors of power than anywhere else, but you are American, and America is not escaping. If anything, it’s leading the way on this dislocation and dissatisfaction. So forcing people to come under one banner of one culture.
And again, I don’t know what that culture is. I’m English, right? I was born in the north of England. I do not believe Australia has a British culture. It has influences British culture, but it’s not British.
Colleen Harkin:
No.
Emma Dawson:
There’s no sense of what Australian is without accommodating the people that have come here over many generations from all around the world. When Colleen says 51% of Australians were born overseas, I have a parent overseas. Is that what Australians want? They’re the 50. Most of us are that. It’s not about what we want or whether we should be a multicultural society.
Colleen Harkin:
Yes, we are.
Emma Dawson:
We are.
Rafael Epstein:
Okay.
Colleen Harkin:
Multiethnic.
Rafael Epstein:
I’m going to press pause there. I do want to get your culture shares, but I’m just going to grab some news headlines first with Natasha McFarlane. Good morning.
Praise for my protagonist. I did get this text. This is tough. Great arguments on both sides. Just some of the brick bets that are coming their way, though, are the blatant bigoted generalisations and slurs sliding through the airwaves are abhorrent. That’s from Marie in Altona. I think that’s directed at Colleen.
And then someone else. Great, Raf. Emma is pushing division. Who are all these people bringing the problems from their country?
Just so you know the responses that we’re getting. And I do love the fact that I think it’s Paul pointing out there were some Catholic Protestant divisions before World War II.
Emma Dawson:
Just a few.
Rafael Epstein:
Just a few. But thank you for being my participants this morning. A culture share, Colleen, when you’re not going to One Nation fundraisers, what are you reading, watching and looking at?
Colleen Harkin:
Well, I’m going to be a little bit self-serving and tell you about a book I’m reading, which is called Mindless, by my colleague, Dr. Bella d’Abrera, on how the education system is indoctrinating children.
Rafael Epstein:
But you’re not reading that when you go to sleep.
Colleen Harkin:
And destroying a civilization.
Rafael Epstein:
You can not well being-
Colleen Harkin:
No, it is genuinely for those people interested in education and culture and civilization.
Rafael Epstein:
Sure.
Colleen Harkin:
It is genuinely a good read.
Rafael Epstein:
What have you watched with your son lately?
Colleen Harkin:
Oh, what was that thing that was about some … it’s all murder stuff. I have to close my eyes half the time.
Rafael Epstein:
Like British murder stuff.
Colleen Harkin:
Yeah.
Rafael Epstein:
Is it Legends one with Steve Coogan?
Emma Dawson:
That’s so good.
Colleen Harkin:
I don’t know who Steve Coogan is.
Rafael Epstein:
No, okay. That’s okay. That’s okay. I was trying to get another cultural share out of you. That’s fine.
Colleen Harkin:
I’ll tell you what I am going to do on the weekend.
Rafael Epstein:
Yes?
Colleen Harkin:
Is the lightscape at Botanical Gardens.
Rafael Epstein:
Okay, great. Boom. Okay. Colleen Harkins at the IPA. Thank you, Colleen. Emma, what’s yours?
Emma Dawson:
Well, it was going to be the new Cape Fear on Apple TV, but Tony Barry gazumped me with that last week. So my daughter and I are going to see Toy Story 5 this weekend.
Rafael Epstein:
Oh, okay.
Emma Dawson:
On the one hand, she goes, “Oh, mom, they really need to come up with some new original stories.” But on the other, it’s a feel good show. It’s going to be a little bit of sweet for us because Toy Story series was a thing she watched with her dad, and this is the first one that’s come out since he died.
Rafael Epstein:
Oh, that’s hard.
Emma Dawson:
But we are popcorning up and we are going to the Elsternwick Classic to check out Toy Story 5. It’ll be a little bit of light relief from what’s been a bitty intense few weeks.
Rafael Epstein:
It has. Enjoy. Thank you. Emma Dawson’s at the Chifley Research Centre.
This transcript of Colleen Harkin on ABC Radio Melbourne from 19 June 2026 has been edited for clarity.
