Rita Panahi:
Joining me now is News Corp senior writer, Patrick Carlyon, and Institute of Public Affairs research fellow Colleen Harkin.
Colleen, Kier Starmer, I’ve got to say he’s a dead man walking. That much is clear. But a new leader isn’t going to be saving Labour. The problems there are far deeper than just Kier Starmer’s leadership.
Colleen Harkin:
I think that’s right. I mean, if you look at it only about two years ago, Reform only had less than 30 councillors. They’re now at two and a half thousand councillors in two years. So it is a very strong movement. The people have spoken.
This is sort of a bit like a UK midterm election. It’s an indicator of what people are thinking, and they’re not happy with either of those major parties. Reformer do an extraordinary job.
But also the idea of just changing your leader, I think the people are smarter than that. They’re not just going to sort of see a new face and think that everything else has changed.
In order to get back any sense of credibility, the parties have to change their foundational policies about how they see England at the moment and what happens with their immigration, with their housing.
It’s the same issues here, but it’s not going to change anytime soon for those parties.
Rita Panahi:
Well, they’ve got an illegal immigration issue we don’t have, but immigration, legal and illegal, is a massive issue there.
Net Zero is enough massive issue. They have absolutely decimated their industries, their economy. There’s so much what they call their energy poverty, so people who are not able to pay their gas and electricity bills.
But there are a lot of parallels with Australia, Patrick. You look at what’s happening with One Nation right now. It seems we’re just a little bit behind the curve. The US went first with Donald Trump, UK now with Reform and One Nation is now becoming a credible force in Australian politics.
Patrick Carlyon:
Absolutely. Look, I mean, the UK, and it feels like it’s happening here as well, it’s gone from two main parties to five sort of major political powers at this point. A lot of them have gone to the right, to Reform obviously.
But the other point, too, is the Labour government actually lost to the Greens, to the left. They’re been leaking on both planks. It’s got very fragmented.
We’re seeing it start to happen here as we saw with the by-election on Saturday. It’s a fascinating time for politics because the traditional bases have been eroded.
Rita Panahi:
The Greens there, again, a little bit different, perhaps how’s it going down the same road, but they’ve got really a communist-Islamist feel to them. There’s a big Gaza activism within that party, and they’re picking up seats from some interesting electorates. So, again, there’s lessons there for both sides of the political divide here in Australia.
Colleen Harkin:
I think that’s true. I think, as you just said, that England is just a bit ahead of us, and America is a bit ahead of the world. There is definitely a sense here of that same shift of sentiment and that the Greens here has sort of historically tended to be a little bit more on the conservation in terms of trees thing, but they have also here lost that handle.
Rita Panahi:
I would argue they lost that a long time ago.
Colleen Harkin:
A long time ago, correct.
Rita Panahi:
Maybe with Bob Brown, perhaps.
Colleen Harkin:
Correct, yeah. They haven’t sort of been seen to be the champions of trees for a long time.
Rita Panahi:
No, they’re quite happy for the beautiful Australian landscape to be destroyed-
Colleen Harkin:
I believe, correct, yeah.
Rita Panahi:
… for solar panels and wind farms. I mean, they don’t often go out there to see their handiwork, but it ain’t pretty, I can tell you that.
Now here’s an example of UK Labour’s idiocy. You could see exactly the same thing happening here with Australian Labour.
Kier Starmer has appointed Harriet Harman as his advisor on women and girls, he just did this a couple of days ago. This is a woman who doesn’t even know what a woman is and in 2022 said, “As far as I’m concerned, women are women who are born women, but women are also women who are trans women.”
There you go, Colleen. This is the sort of craziness we see here, and that’s why I think Reform takes so many votes from Labour in the UK, and One Nation is going to take a lot of votes from Labour here.
It’s not just the cost of living crisis. It’s not just immigration and housing. It’s the so-called culture wars, which are really values. They’re important issues. And when it comes to values, this is just one area where Labour at odds with, I say, the bulk of their voters, where they have just gone down this radical road that the voters don’t recognise.
Colleen Harkin:
And I think there’s this thing that they call the long march through the institutions. Because this sort of ideological approach to Australian life has gone through the schools, it’s gone through the bureaucracy, and the average Australian person who’s just trying to put food on the table and look after their family knows it is nonsense.
And both of the parties have done it. Both of the parties have acquiesced to an activist agenda, and that’s why they’re both in decline. The ordinary-
Rita Panahi:
And they’re seen as the uniparty.
Colleen Harkin:
Correct. Yes. They’re just not standing up for what the average person wants out of a government. They don’t want the activist agenda.
Rita Panahi:
Now we had the Farrer by-election over the weekend, where One Nation candidate David Farley defeated Teal Michelle Milthorpe. The seat was vacated by former opposition leader Sussan Ley and had been held exclusively by the coalition since its creation back in 1949.
But have a listen here to the ABC’s Patricia Karvelas talk about the possibility that One Nation could win more seats.
Patricia Karvelas:
A big and dangerous mistake to legitimise One Nation and to embolden One Nation.
I used the term earlier on in the broadcast, the permission structure. If they are able to win their first lower house seat, that begins the process of legitimising them and in other electorates where they may run, voters thinking, “Well, it’s happened before. It’s normal now,” you start normalising something.
Rita Panahi:
Patrick, the prime minister has also regurgitated this ABC talking point. He told 4CN Cairns Radio that the liberal and national parties are helping legitimise One Nation.
I mean, this is such outdated thinking. You must think One Nation is still polling 3, 4%.
Patrick Carlyon:
That’s right.
Rita Panahi:
Times have changed.
Patrick Carlyon:
Yeah. Look, I think the Labour and the Liberal parties have legitimised One Nation, in effect, by what we were just talking about, by dabbling with just distractions being ideologically-driven in ways that people don’t understand or recognise. They don’t want that from their governments.
And One Nation is actually, you know, Pauline Hanson’s been pushing anti-immigration sort of policies for 30 years. Older Australians are sort of wondering that they can’t afford to buy houses, that they don’t have enough money. It resonates in a way and that resonates because of the failures of the mainstream parties.
Rita Panahi:
Now, Labour Pollster Kos Samaras has said that no party can win elections without appealing to voters of Indian and Chinese heritage.
Kos Samaras:
You cannot live in the lodge as prime minister unless you are winning Melbourne and Sydney, and you cannot win Melbourne and Sydney without the Indian and Chinese diasporas, full stop.
And, of course, as you just touched on, the Indian community now is the largest diaspora in the country. It’s overwhelmingly by country mall the largest in Victoria, and combined Chinese and Indian Australians in New South Wales that are absolutely gazump those from England.
Rita Panahi:
And Kos Samaras also pointed out that those Australians born in England tend to be a lot older than the average migrant from India.
Kos Samaras:
You’ve decided on a political strategy that is not going to be focused to these other cohorts that we’ve been talking about, you’re going to run out of tarmac.
The median age of someone who was born in the UK and lives here is 59. The median age of someone who was born in India and lives here is 36.
Rita Panahi:
Going to run out of tarmac. That’s one way of putting it, Colleen.
I think it’s really quite simplistic to assume that voters who are, say, Chinese or Indian aren’t going to vote for One Nation, for example, or will only vote for the coalition if they lurched to the left.
I think people forget that these communities tend to be socially conservative. They’re aspirational, I would say, even more so than a lot of people born and bred here. They’re very focused on wealth creation, financial stability for their children. And there is a lot of ground for a party like One Nation or the coalition to appeal to those voters.
Colleen Harkin:
I think it’s an extraordinary insult to those communities, to be honest, that Kos Samaras would come out and say that they’re a bloc, that because their ethnicity is Indian or Chinese, they will, therefore, all do the same thing.
It’s not giving them any credit for, as you say, for having different aspirations. IPA Research will tell you that 77% of migrants actually subscribe to Australian values and that Australian values means that you have this independence of your life. You’re not sort of stuck where you were, whatever country you came from.
I think this is why One Nation are doing so well. It’s because the ordinary Australian is standing up and saying, “We’ve had enough of this acquiescing to a group, acquiescing to the Green sort of climate change or to a group of ethnic community and sort of forgetting who Australia is and what we stand for.”
And I think that sort of analysis is completely wrongheaded about understanding the ordinary voter and what they want out of their politicians.
Rita Panahi:
Patrick, again, if you’re going to compare Australia with US or UK, the Democrats made the same assumption when it came to ethnic voters, and Donald Trump has done particularly well with those demographics, particularly Latino voters, Asian voters.
And a lot of it has to do with values, and that’s what he pushed very heavily during his campaign, this notion of the radical agenda of the left, the trans issue was brought up over and over again, and it’s a significant issue.
People think that, oh, all people care about are taxes and housing, of course, they’re hugely important, but the values that you’re instilling in their children in schools and in the culture, that gets voters activated as well.
Patrick Carlyon:
Absolutely. Look, we’ve seen Trump do that in terms of American values. He talks about American values, and it’s not about the Latinos or whoever. It’s about actually being an American and being a proud American.
And I think we’re starting to see that more in Australia now where we’re talking about Australian values. We’re not talking about the Indian community as a bloc. We’re talking about people who have come here to make a better life and to do well and to succeed. And the idea that somehow they’re cocooned and sort of locked into that one little part of the electorate and they’re going to vote that way or that way really is, it is patronising.
Rita Panahi:
It is. And one of the things One Nation do particularly well, Colleen, is their social media. It stands out dramatically from what Labour offering and the coalition.
Here’s an example. They have the Please Explain cartoons we’ve played for you a lot on this station. This is the latest edition and here, Albo assembles his team to figure out why Pauline Hanson is so popular and why Albo’s personal popularity has plummeted.
Video:
This is our problem. I need to call a meeting. Labour, assemble.
All right, stop mucking around. This is an emergency. We’ve got a crisis on our head.
Oh, no, it’s inflation, isn’t it? The trillion-dollar debt. Our addiction to spending, the bloated bureaucracy, our complete incompetence.
No, it’s because we all love taking the taxpayer for a ride. Isn’t that right, Anika?
She’s not here. She’s gone skiing. But no, the destruction of the Australian economy is the least of our concerns.
I know what it is. China’s got us by the balls.
And we’re completely defenceless. Our military is an absolute embarrassment.
It’s because I’m a peanut, isn’t it? I knew it. It’s my obsession with Net Zero. That’s the problem.
No, Bowen, it’s way worse than that.
Well, looks like my ISIS brides have finally come home to roost and their kids. They blow up so quickly, don’t they?
No, Tony Burke. It’s Alice Springs. We’re too scared to even talk about it because of-
Racism. It’s the housing crisis, isn’t it? Everything I touch turns to-
Bitcoin.
Oh, can someone please get Charlotte Walker a new nappy, please? Our biggest problem is that 54% of people don’t like me anymore.
Wait, 54%? That’s almost a majority.
Rita Panahi:
54%, that’s almost a majority. I mean, the whole thing’s about seven, eight minutes long, and it’s funny, Colleen. It has cut story. You don’t even have to be particularly into politics, though it does help because there’s a lot of little jokes in there. And you don’t see the coalition doing anything like that, nor Labour or the Greens.
Colleen Harkin:
No, it’s hilarious. I love that stuff. And the funny part of it that is unfunny because it’s mostly true.
Rita Panahi:
Yes.
Patrick Carlyon:
Yes.
Colleen Harkin:
And it is one of those ways that modern politics engages with people, and it gets them to think about things. Like I said, I mean, most of that is true. So it is a way of saying things in a more entertaining way that do cut through. They do engage particularly younger people. It’s no surprise that that stuff is so popular.
Rita Panahi:
I tell you, if you watch that full cartoon, you might find out a few things about Get Up, which I didn’t even know previously-
Colleen Harkin:
Yes, yes.
Rita Panahi:
… and I thought I knew a fair bit about Get Up.
Patrick, Pauline Hanson’s personal popularity, that in itself presents a problem for both the coalition and Labour. Labour have realised it doesn’t pay to personally attack her.
Patrick Carlyon:
No.
Rita Panahi:
It’s counterproductive.
Patrick Carlyon:
Yep.
Rita Panahi:
I don’t know if the coalition have figured that out, but they’ll need to come up with a way where they can attack One Nation without really going after its leader.
Patrick Carlyon:
Yeah. Look, Pauline Hanson’s been in public life for 30 years now, and she’s been consistent, and that’s been a message. I was saying this in 1996, I’m saying it today in 2026, and it resonates in a way for all the reasons we’ve been talking about.
People actually listen to her now. She was treated like a bit of a fringe sort of character. Now she’s mainstream, she’s box office, and to attack her personally isn’t going to work because people have sort of said, “Well, hang on. She’s saying things that resonate with me in a way that the mainstream parties don’t.”
Rita Panahi:
And she’s got that authenticity as well, which I think people respect, whether they agree with her or not.
Patrick Carlyon:
Yes.
Rita Panahi:
They do think she’s real. She’s not some sort of a political creation that just looks at what focus groups are telling her, Colleen.
Run out of time, guys. Patrick Carlyon, Colleen Harkin, thank you so much for your time.
Colleen Harkin:
Thank you.
This transcript of Colleen Harkin on The Rita Panahi Show Sky News Australia 11 May 2026 has been edited for clarity.
