In this interview, Peter Jennings appeared on Credlin Sky News Australia to discuss the IPA’s research on Australia’s National Security.
All media appearances posted onto the IPA website are directly related to the promotion and dissemination of IPA research.
Below is a transcript of the interview.
Peta Credlin:
Here to help deal with some of the national security background issues I want to get into with more detail, former defence official, security expert, of course, adjunct fellow now at the Institute of Public Affairs, Peter Jennings. Peter, thank you for your time. I regret we’re talking to each other under these circumstances. Before we have a discussion about ASIO and what we both know is likely to be happening behind closed doors, I want to get your reaction to these global headlines and the significant response to world leaders, including Donald Trump and Benjamin Netanyahu. I think we have a grab. Let’s have a listen. Oh, we haven’t got a grab. I feel we’ve lost our innocence in the past 24 hours. You know how this is received overseas by all the other intelligence agencies. Our prime ministers also had some very blunt advice from the Israeli PM. Give me your view.
Peter Jennings:
Blunt and angry advice. I think because so many people, including the both of us, Peta, knew this was coming. We’ve been talking and writing about this for several years, the mounting anger and tension on our streets, the increasing violence, the foreign interference, as you pointed out, the coordinated nature of much of the protest activity. So I think we have, frankly, got to expect that there are going to be countries and individuals like many in Congress in the United States that are going to be extremely critical of our government because the Albanese government just doesn’t get it.
Including today, Peta, the Albanese government will read off lists of how they’ve done things like ban the swastika for which you can be fined $16,000 or something if you carry one. This when we’ve seen 16 people killed in Bondi, it’s just not good enough, Peta. And our government has to understand that I think there’s a mounting sense of anger amongst all Australians, not just Jews, all Australians, that they need to deal with this thoroughly and quickly and not by engaging in a few more handout of dollars for security to Jewish groups. This is a national problem, and our prime minister has to lead in resolving it quickly.
Peta Credlin:
I would regard it as a national crisis. And I also think we’re not being told enough publicly by the prime minister. There’s deceptive language in all the press conferences and I’m watching absolutely everything. I’m reading the transcripts again in case I might miss something. Let’s have a listen to comments. When asked today about the reports, and they were reports only at that time, that the younger shooter was known to ASIO. Let’s have a listen to what the prime minister said.
Anthony Albanese:
He was examined on the basis of being associated with others, and the assessment was made that there was no indication of any ongoing threat or threat of him engaging in violence.
Peta Credlin:
Okay. With others, Peter Jennings, if you look now at the reports on the ABC, the others we’re talking about there are an Islamic state cell. Now, the Prime Minister deliberately avoided referencing the fact that the others, it could have been some bad dudes down at the pub, anything quite benign because it was then dismissed by ASIO, but the others are an Islamic state cell. You and I know what happened around the heightened period of Islamic state in ’14, ’15 and ’16, so that would concern me. Did ASIO slip up, and are we not being told the whole truth by the prime minister?
Peter Jennings:
Well, we are clearly not being told the whole truth. And for some reason, the government feels that it needs to continue to hide some of these activities behind a veil, which I think is completely inappropriate and will ultimately come out in time. I think it’s the fear of the angry response from the Australian public that makes the government do this. As for ASIO’s possession, ASIO is understaffed and under-resourced and has been for a very long time. It puts its biggest priority on being able to deal with the threats which it can identify that may emerge in the next 48, 72 hours. And I can’t say that I really fault them for that. They can’t track everyone that maybe 8 or 10 years ago might have been showing signs of radicalization. But for all of that, I’m not making excuses here.
There’s a problem with a father who’s a gun owner that has six long arm weapons. There’s a problem with the son who is known now to have had some association with the Islamic state. It clearly turned out that he had continued violence on his mind, and we’re now paying the price for that. And so the question I have is, well, how many other people? How many other father-son combinations might there be like that out there? We hear from the head of ASIO, “Well, there’s no current threat that we are aware of,” but then again, we weren’t aware of this a threat on Sunday evening either. So I think there’s every reason for Australians to be seriously concerned, and we’re in this situation because the government has allowed it to generate. They’ve allowed it to heat up over the last couple of years. They’ve not taken it seriously and now they’re going to reap the consequences.
Peta Credlin:
I want to play some comments from Mike Pezzullo, former head of Home Affairs, so has head carriage of these areas in the federal government before. Let’s have a listen.
Mike Pezzullo:
The immediate investigation has to be allowed to proceed unfettered. They need to be talking to relatives, to associates, to any affiliates of these two gentlemen or whoever. If you just leave it at that and wait for that, you might miss things that you can reform quickly and they need a parallel effort, I would assign it to my old department, the Department of Home Affairs. There is a counter-terrorism coordinator, very senior official, someone that I deeply respect, Hamish Hansford. He should be looking at under the auspices of that title what can we do immediately? What can we do in the medium term and what needs to be done in the long term?
Peta Credlin:
It hasn’t escaped my memory when we had Man Haron Monis, if we remember the Lint Siege about the same time of year and the atrocities that went on there, that there was an immediate… under Prime Minister Abbott at the time, an immediate… I think it only was three or four weeks an immediate inquiry so that action could be taken on issues right now in an immediate timeframe, and then a longer term inquiry about better coordination at a state and federal level. I have not forgotten either, and I doubt you have, that the prime minister threw the AFP boss and the AISO boss out of the NSC, the National Security Committee of Cabinet. He was forced to bring them back in, but Peter Jennings, this says everything about his understanding of an interest in national security to be.
Peter Jennings:
That’s right. He threw out the intelligence heads in March of 2024, and he brought in Chris Bowen, the Energy and Climate Change Minister, because that’s what his priororities were. And look, I mostly agree with Mike Pezzullo’s comments, Peta. We can’t just wait for a police investigation here. There’s a couple of things I would do. I would recall Parliament. I would create an opportunity for every single member of Parliament in the Senate to be on the record saying where they are when it comes to dealing with this issue of antisemitism. I think it’s important we know where our elected representatives are. The second thing I’d do is I’d bring Jillian Segal, the antisemitism envoy into Cabinet, and I would say that Cabinet should instantly agree to adopt all of her recommendations for counting antisemitism.
And then the prime ministers should drive every minister around the Cabinet table to say, “Right, you’ve got a month to tell me how you’re going to implement your part of the Segal recommendations in your areas of portfolio responsibility across Australia.” And I think there are many other things that can be done. Overwhelmingly, though, all I get is a sense of passivity from Anthony Albanese. He’s going to wait to see what the police investigation comes up with and then maybe he’ll think about doing things. No, the prime minister has to lead. We don’t wait for police reports. We elect our representatives for them to take responsibility for these actions. That’s what this government has failed to do, and now I think Albanese needs to lead or get out of the way.
Peta Credlin:
Get out of the way or lead. You are spot on there. Thank you very much, Peter Jennings.
This transcript with Peter Jennings talking on Credlin Sky News Australia from 15 December 2025 has been edited for clarity.
