Ali Moore:
Morgan Begg is a director of research at the Institute of Public Affairs. The IPA did this particular piece of research.
Morgan, hello.
Morgan Begg:
Hello, good to be with you.
Ali Moore:
I’m not going to get you to do it, but could you sing both verses?
Morgan Begg:
I could. I could. And potentially the original lyrics as originally composed by PD McCormick in 1878, but don’t test me on that.
Ali Moore:
That’s all right. I won’t. I won’t. First of all, the number of people who just want to keep it as it is, that was more than three quarters.
Morgan Begg:
Yeah, that’s right. We commissioned this survey and it found that 77% of Australians either agree or strongly agree that the national anthem should be retained, and just 7% actually disagreed with that proposition. Now, that’s really fascinating because so much of the contemporary debate about the national anthem is about whether it should be changed or whether the language should be modernised or whether it should be accounting for different factors or to be made more inclusive or any number of complaints that people have had about the national anthem. But it turns out that actually, if you ask the regular Australian on the street, they actually don’t see a need for change.
Ali Moore:
And the bit about the unity bit, that people see it as a unifying factor.
Morgan Begg:
Yeah, well, 76% of Australians either agreed or strongly agreed with the statement that the national anthem unites us. I think that’s really interesting, and it’s quite consistent with community attitudes towards other key national symbols. We’ve also run surveys on opinions about Australia Day or the national flag and it’s remarkable how consistent. It’s about the same result. It’s actually not that surprising. These national symbols, they’re reminders that we are all part of the same national community, about something bigger than ourselves and that we all belong to it. And I think that’s really… In terms of increasing division that we seem to be going through, these sorts of things are really important.
Ali Moore:
It has been around in its latest version, I think since ’84, as in 1984, but then we had the change in 2021, young and free becoming one and free. Do you reckon it has stood the test of time? And you said that you might be able to give me the very original lyrics, but do you think it has to the test of time or does it need a little bit of a modernization?
Morgan Begg:
No. Actually, I think it’s stood up remarkably well. A lot of the original lyrics have survived from the 1878 composition.
Ali Moore:
Well, that would be girt by sea, wouldn’t it? Because I can’t imagine anyone writing that today.
Morgan Begg:
Well, it’s an interesting little time capsule. It is of its time, but it’s quite poetic and it is… I know people have their issues with it, but I don’t have too much of a problem with it. It isn’t a word that we use very often anymore, but it’s a nice poetic and an elevated use of the English language.
Ali Moore:
I wonder how many people actually know it. Has anyone ever done a survey on that?
Morgan Begg:
On the full lyrics or the meaning of girt?
Ali Moore:
No. Well, there could be that too, but I will admit, I do not know it. If you asked me to sing you the National Anthem, I couldn’t. I mean, I could now because I’ve got it in front of me, but I couldn’t without that.
Morgan Begg:
Yeah. I think it is a problem, and especially with the younger generation, because when I went through school, singing the national anthem was mandatory. But even back then, it was often only the first verse. And of course, there are two verses to the national anthem. And sometimes, yeah, if that one came up, you might get tripped up. And now, actually the use of the anthem in schools is vanishing at this rate. So I think you are going in danger of having a generation come through who have actually very little knowledge of the national anthem lyrics, which I find quite concerning.
Ali Moore:
Interesting point. If we’re going to have it, I guess we should know it. Morgan, thank you.
Morgan Begg:
Appreciate it. Thank you.
Ali Moore:
Morgan Begg there, director of research at the Institute of Public Affairs. Tell me what you make of the anthem. Are you a fan, not a fan?
This transcript of Morgan Begg talking on ABC Melbourne Drive with Ali Moore from 21 May 2026 has been edited for clarity.
