In this interview, Daniel Wild appeared on Paul Murray Live Sky News Australia to discuss the IPA’s research on housing and immigration.
All media appearances posted onto the IPA website are directly related to the promotion and dissemination of IPA research.
Below is a transcript of the interview.
Paul Murray:
On No Sooks, No Lefties, that’s my present to you. After Australia absolutely thumbs England at the cricket, it’s just a chance to sit back with normal people like yourself and have a chat about the week ahead and a couple of days in the rear vision mirror. Daniel Wild, of course, the Institute of Public Affairs, joining us from beautiful Adelaide. And the wonderful Lee Hanson, future Senator Lee Hanson, she joins us now from Tassie. Lovely to see you both.
So before I get onto polls and all the rest of it, and actually there’s a really fascinating data that I haven’t got to yet, which is about immigration and about why people feel the way they do about immigration. Look, you can both have a kick from in front about old maid Anika Wells. Don’t you love this here? It’s all within the rules. It’s all within the rules for me to take the proverbial as often as she does, be it New York, be it Threadbo, be it the mate’s birthday, be at the Melbourne Cup.
Lee, look, will the prime minister try to protect her? Will the media probably move on? Yeah, but there’s plenty there, there. And I’m saying the receipts. The receipts, I’ve got them here. It is extraordinary the freebies this lady takes.
Lee Hanson:
It is extraordinary. And of course she’s going to be protected. However, we need to hold her to account. The people need to hold her account and the media need to hold her to account. It does not pass the pub test, pure and simple. When we have cost of living crisis here, and I heard you talk about before, the stats have risen in regards to people with multiple jobs, and then we hear about politicians jet-setting on the taxpayer’s dollars, I believe one meal an evening in Paris was $1,200 on, what, French champagne? Is that really essential for a bit parliamentary trip? We need to hold these politicians to account. We cannot have them defaulting to, oh, it’s in the rules or the guidelines. If that’s the case, the guidelines need reviewing. The guidelines need amending. And if it was coming out of her pocket and her wage, I bet you she wouldn’t have spent that money and she would have had more scrutiny over the spending.
So I actually call for Paul. We need to ensure, look at a independent body or some sort of contract that actually reviews this spending. But in addition to our spending, I think politicians should be held account for their false promises as well. Coming into elections, all the false promises they make and it never comes to fruition, why can’t we put in a system where if they don’t deliver their hold to account and they have to pay back or step back out of their jobs?
Paul Murray:
Well, hallelujah. Hallelujah. Now, now, of course, there’ll be people saying, “Well, the pub test, what a masculine way of thinking about things.” Okay, the coffee club. What about the Maury Clay Target Shooting Club? What about the ocean swimming club?” None of them would say that this arrangement is acceptable.
Daniel, it is a major fault line in the ruling class that basically, look, they know they’re going to cop a couple of days at this staff, everyone moves on. But the prime minister also knows that if he gives in and creates an opportunity of accountability, then that becomes a scandal people don’t forget. So what does that say about our political system that the prime minister might actually be right, but anyone who knows about the Minister for Freebies at the moment would be absolutely red-hot?
Daniel Wild:
Well, that’s exactly right, Paul. It’s rules for they and not for me. It’s a double standard. It’s a hypocritical double standard. And this is why Australians, why trust and confidence in politicians is at a record low.
Now, the excuse that Anika Wells gave for that dinner or that lunch that Lee mentioned was it was orientation. Orientation. I mean, imagine if you went to your boss tomorrow morning and said, “Hey, boss, I need 1,200 bucks for lunch.” And he says, “Why is lunch so expensive?” “Oh, we’ve got orientation. “”Oh, that’s all right. Yeah, here’s 1,200 bucks for your lunch.” I mean, would anybody else in the country get away with that? I mean, they’re having a laugh at us. It’s such a pathetic excuse.
And unfortunately, look, I live here in Adelaide, Paul. And if Anika wants my number, I’d be very happy to chauffeur her around next time she’s in town and I’ll just charge her half. I’ll charge her half of what she’s charged taxpayers, so it’s a good deal all around our end.
Paul Murray:
Yeah. Maybe that’s what we could have, a billet system where labour voters are able to put up the labour ministers, or if you want to be four-fifths, say, a com car, then fair enough. We’ll see where it goes.
As for where the Libs were on this, can we just show you Alex Hawke, who is of course the leader of the opposition in terms of the procedure in the House. This is what he had to say today, and I think he actually hit his target pretty well.
Alex Hawke:
And the minister’s defences don’t seem to stack up either. I mean, if the minister is eating a mousseline bar and falling asleep in Paris, then why is the taxpayer being charged for expensive dinners and expensive food and expensive travel if she’s not partaking of them? So if her defence is, “Well, I was working really hard and I didn’t eat much and I wasn’t really paying attention or asleep at the table,” then we could presumably recoup some of that…”
Paul Murray:
Yeah, I liked the line where he said among other things that this would make the royals blush. Perhaps not Andrew, perhaps not Andrew, but maybe a more responsible royal somewhere.
All right. Part of the opinion polling that shows us about the strength of One Nation at the moment where they end the year stronger than they have ever been, the Liberal Party in its weakest position in the history of polling labour, basically where they were at the election. But again, the overall picture is basically 55/45 in favour of the lefties. The issue of immigration, and I always love when the Libbies have to be confronted by the reality that a very significant number of Australians think too many people are being brought into the country, not because they’re deep, dark, and racist, but there’s a bunch of reasons why.
49% of people down from 53 believe… Or sorry, up I should say. 49 is now up to 53, now believe too many people coming into the country. Why? Well, some of the reasons are worth seeing here. Where? What are the solutions? Well, restricting permanent migration only to those who actually have the skills. 60% are on board for that. But what about pausing any immigration until our housing situation is caught up? That’s 64%. Shh, don’t tell anyone. Again, more detail inside all of these polls.
Why are you concerned when it comes to migration? Well, there’s not enough houses and they’re pushing prices up. It puts pressure on our health and education services. These are, of course, the reasons that we have talked about this issue uphill, down dale, for as long as we have. Now, again, for some people it’s going to be cultural, but where are they going to live is not an unreasonable question, Daniel. It is an area that any politician who wants to be critical of it should focus on that. Okay. Treasurer, where will they live? I notice in your budget, it’s 200,000 people in the next year. Where will they live?
Daniel Wild:
Well, exactly. I think this is the single biggest issue facing our country right now. The community is white-hot with anger, and they have been now for a number of years. The number of people that have been brought into our country since COVID is more than at any time in our nation’s history. We’ve got a housing shortage. It’s hard for people to get into a GP or access local services. And then whenever you try to debate this or raise it, you’re called a racist and you’re accused of having nefarious motives. Yet two-thirds of Australians are saying they want a pause on immigration until we have enough housing. Two-thirds. That is astonishing. This is an issue that the political class simply does not want to deal with.
And look, the other issue here is that this has been building for some time. Australians can feel it in their day-to-day lived experience. When they’re driving around, when they’re trying to get a local service, this is not just an abstract issue. Now, the treasury types will tell you, “Well, if you don’t bring in large number of migrants, the economy’s going to crash.” But the reality is, think about this, the last financial year, according to the ABS, only 17% of all of those who came here were on a skilled visa, 17%. Yeah, the government says they’re having a skilled migration programme. They’re just having a laugh of us, Paul.
Paul Murray:
So Lee, 81% of people say one of the biggest reasons why we should be pausing this stuff is because of housing. And more than half, in fact more than 60% of people, believing that the pause should continue until the housing is fixed. Surprise, One Nation’s always been there, but this is one of those once again, the polite society. I guarantee you that opinion poll is going to be buried somewhere underneath the problems for the Libs, but the reality is that to understand the problems with the political class is to understand how migration and mass migration, remember referred to as the Libs as somehow unpleasant and offensive to say, again, it’s not about whom lives next door. It’s about whether there is a place to live next door.
Lee Hanson:
Spot on, Paul. And totally agree, Dan. People are feeling it. It is exactly everyday lived experiences. Why are we afraid to have these conversations? The major parties skirt around it. They won’t address it. They won’t deal it head on. They don’t want to be branded with the racial tags, hence why One Nation cops those ones, because we’re the only ones that are actually coming forward and dealing with the conversation, which is purely we cannot sustain the numbers. And it’s putting pressure, as you say, housing, education, infrastructure, roads, medical, et cetera. The list goes on. One Nation’s policy is actually that we cap it at 130,000, and that works out about net neutral. You think about people leaving the country and deaths. And then by having 130, it still allows those truly skilled immigrants to come in, as you talked about, Dan, to help us where it’s needed.
We cannot sustain any more numbers. And we’ve got to stop branding these radical tags of race as being all cultural as being the reason why we’re wanting this conversation. We’ve got to look at what’s best for our country and our future, and we shouldn’t be shying away from it.
Paul Murray:
With you completely. All right. Bold prediction for the week ahead. More people will agree with me that Lee Hanson’s new bob, fantastic. Amazing, 11 out of 10. Well done. Love the bangs. Looking great. All right. On top of that though, Daniel, give me your bumper sticker. What’s definitely happening this week is your bold prediction.
Daniel Wild:
Well, my bold prediction is that I don’t think Pat Cummins is going to come back to the cricket team. We’re doing too good without him. And I’ve been so happy without having Pat Cummins there having a woke cricket captain. I don’t want to watch it. Having Steve Smith, someone who actually loves the country, who will sing the anthem, I’m very happy for Steve Smith. He shouldn’t have cheated. He shouldn’t have cheated, but he does love Australia. Pat Cummins doesn’t. Let’s keep Steve Smith as captain. That’s my prediction.
Paul Murray:
All right. Get out on the streets of Adelaide and see how that goes. That’s where the next test is. Lee, your bold prediction, please.
Lee Hanson:
Well, for first, Dan, I need to get up with sport more if I’m going to do bold predictions with you. I’m a little bit in the dark on these ones, so I’ve got to pull the socks out there. My bold protection for this week, oh, I’m curious to see and hopeful maybe that Barnaby’s sandwich press steak might have digested a little bit and he’s closer to making a decision. We can only hope. We’ll have to wait and see.
Paul Murray:
Oh, thank you for that grub in the morning. Appreciate it. Very good. Thank you, Lee. Thank you, Daniel. We’ll see you again. All right, quick break. Back with more.
This transcript with Daniel Wild on Paul Murray Live Sky News Australia from 7 December 2025 has been edited for clarity.
