In this interview, Adam Creighton appeared on The Rita Panahi Show Sky News Australia to discuss the IPA’s research on housing and immigration.
All media appearances posted onto the IPA website are directly related to the promotion and dissemination of IPA research.
Below is a transcript of the interview.
Rita Panahi:
Joining me now is Senior Fellow and Chief Economist at the Institute of Public Affairs, Adam Creighton, and Sky News’ digital editor, Jack Houghton.
Adam, I’m going to start with you. “It’s all within the guidelines,” that’s what she said, that’s what the prime minister has said. It’s a rather arrogant response in my opinion.
Adam Creighton:
Yeah. Look, I think she looks very silly in that clip there. Clearly, she knows that she was wasteful with taxpayers’ money, she clearly was, but look, I’m not going to defend the minister, but I do find these amounts of money in the big scheme of things very small. We have a federal government whose spending is out of control, $750 billion a year, and we’re talking about $1,800 here and there. Now, it’s not right that she’s doing it, but it’s just such a distraction from the NDIS, which is growing 7% a year and is about to cost more than the armed forces. But also, with these stories, there’s just so much hypocrisy on both sides. They come up every couple years. Both sides do it. Remember, we had Bronwyn Bishop’s helicopter and we had Susan Ley.
Rita Panahi:
That was within the guidelines [inaudible 00:00:53].
Adam Creighton:
Also, no, that’s the point, all in the guidelines. It’s all in the guidelines. Change the guidelines. Change the guidelines if there’s a problem.
Rita Panahi:
Oh, I want just more free for all for everybody. Jack, that’s an economist response. He’s worried about the NDIS spending. He doesn’t care about a couple of thousands here, 94,000 there. To me, this is a serious scandal. Can Anika Wells survive this? She is the responsible minister right now for a very contentious world-first policy.
Jack Houghton:
Well, I’m going to be a fool and disagree with an economist slightly. I take the point that Adam’s making, that there are broader, more systemic issues with Labour spending, but you’ve got to realise it starts at the little things. And when you have a government that’s barely into their second term that has the arrogance to rack up bills like this on things that the average person in their life would not get to go and do these things as a holiday, and it’s clearly calculated. Whether she says it isn’t or it is, it’s quite obvious that she’s picking these things that are around these formal business events and charging the taxpayer.
Now, $8,000 for AFL Grand Final access for her husband, thousands of dollars to go skiing, the average person looks at that, and they look at her response, which I got to say, the press conference, the National Press Club appearance, it was just contempt the way that she answered those questions. She’s clearly being told, “No, you have to be more transparent.” But if you look at the rules, the rules that they are written in Parliament always have this caveat of what’s reasonable, and I don’t really care if they are part of it or not. I don’t really care if they are in or if they’re in breach.
The point is there is a government who right now has just announced that they’re going to get rid of the energy rebates. This Christmas, six days after Christmas, Australians are going to wake up, they’re going to be paying more for their energy bills, and meanwhile, these ministers are not treating their responsibilities with any austerity measures at all. It is just contempt for the taxpayer. And I think every dollar matters, and every $1,000 matters, and if that’s their attitude towards money on a small scale, you can see how that flows through on all the big-ticket items.
Rita Panahi:
I’m still trying to figure out how she managed to pay 94,000 for three airfares to New York.
Adam Creighton:
Must have been first class.
Rita Panahi:
And she said she didn’t fly first class, it wasn’t first class, so it would literally take five minutes to find something far cheaper for the Australian taxpayer to be paying for. But I don’t know. I don’t know why that wasn’t done.
Now, a new poll has revealed most Australians want the country’s immigration intake paused to give the housing market an opportunity to catch up. The Resolve Political Monitor conducted for the Age newspaper found 53% of voters thought immigration was too high. Voters said the high intake of people was putting pressure on housing, health, and education services, Adam. Only one in three voters thought the current immigration level was acceptable. I think that says plenty.
Adam Creighton:
Yeah. Well, look, it’s hardly a surprise. And I think this is a great opportunity actually for the coalition when they finally have an immigration policy. They’ve basically been absent on this issue the whole year, pretty much. It’s only been one nation, which, of course, by the way, has been surging in support, that has been saying that immigration levels are too high, and that is what the community thinks. And of course, if the coalition was saying it was too high as well, those numbers would be even higher because people would change their mind.
It’s a great opportunity, it should change, and these people are right. It’s 350,000 people a year net migration at the moment. That is extraordinarily high. It’s the highest of any country in the Western world as a percentage. No one has more immigration than Australia at that level. People are right, it is too high, and we’re seeing that in house prices, infrastructure and health, as you said. It’s just a matter of time. Someone has to seize this issue and prosecute it.
Rita Panahi:
Jack, it took forever for the coalition to come to a position on net-zero, a position that was sufficiently different to Labour. How long is it going to take to get an immigration policy? When are they going to land on a figure that, again, differentiates them from Labour and gives the Australian people a clear choice?
Jack Houghton:
Well, exactly. Are they going to be too crippled by internal fighting to actually do the only smart thing that they could do in this situation and to campaign to lower migration numbers? It’s so obvious the majority of Australians want this. And I’d also make a point as well, when you’ve got both major parties in lockstep on these major issues, the polling resembles that. And I’ll just mention that the Voice, 70% of Australians supported the Voice until one day they didn’t.
Now, if you campaign on an issue, you change hearts and minds, and right now, the Coalition is absent from this. It creates space where voters are going to One Nation because they’re not feeling listened to, and the Liberal Party in particular has a big issue where they are too scared of corporate Australia, because corporate Australia wants high immigration numbers because they want to pay people less to do those jobs, and the Liberal Party traditionally, historically, is lockstep with these corporations. And Labour has very successfully pivoted into being closer aligned there.
The Coalition needs to understand, though, that this is their moment. Electorally, this is how they can actually win an election if they come forward with a campaign. You’ve already got the majority of Australians want it to happen, and that is in the absence of a national debate happening. There is, right now, margin for those numbers to completely blow out. And that is how you take down an Albanese government. You find two or three really fundamental issues, energy, immigration, cost of living, and you campaign solely on those issues. And, honestly, it’s shocking, absolutely shocking, that they haven’t realised this yet.
Rita Panahi:
They’ve got people within the opposition who are offended by the term mass migration. That’s where we are.
Adam Creighton:
Ridiculous.
Rita Panahi:
It’s part of the reason why there is no coherent policy that is giving the Australian people what they’re crying out for, which is lower numbers of immigration.
Now, talking about the corporate sector and what they’re up to, let’s talk about ACON. It’s one of Australia’s largest lobby groups, trans lobby group. Hundreds of businesses and government agencies compete in its workplace equality index, which they get points on offer for things like having a cupcake day or gender-neutral bathrooms or gender affirmation leave, all sorts of political activism. The index ranks each organisation out of a score of 200 on how they implement ACON’s policies. And among those organisations is the ABC, which has spent tens of thousands of dollars implementing ACON’s workplace demands and it’s achieved platinum status for its commitment to trans rights.
Jack, the Australian newspaper has done some absolutely superb work in the recent days in exposing the manner in which ACON exercises this enormous power, this enormous influence, in the corporate sector, in government agencies as well, and the public broadcaster is amongst them, but the power they wield extends to the private sector as well.
Jack Houghton:
Yeah. Well, look, the reporting on gender issues, there’s been a reckoning in the BBC as well, where they’ve had to go back and realise that basically every story they were doing on trans issues and gender ideology was through a positive lens. Everyone who reads the ABC, watches the ABC, knows that they are guilty of that crime as well. If you’ve got an organisation, which is a lobby group, which is pushing very contentious ideas about puberty blockers and the gender-affirming approach, the same sort of stuff that got Tavistock shut down in the UK. Some people say it’s even worse what we’re doing here in Australia, and there will be a reckoning. The ABC is now on the side where that lobby group is giving them a platinum badge. Basically, what they’re saying is the journalism is so biassed and one-sided that the lobby group is recognising them with a badge of honour.
The journalists should not be wanting to be celebrated by the lobby group. The journalists should be wanting to, basically, say, “What is one side, and what is another view?” And that is absent from the ABC and that is the problem. We’re paying for this. You pay for this with your tax dollars and they have taken an editorial position. And it’s an editorial position, which in my view, in 10 years time, everybody, everybody will accept it was the wrong thing to do.
Rita Panahi:
Oh, absolutely, and they will add a memory hole their activism in this. The ABC, I’m sure, will hope everyone has selective memory loss when it comes to the role they played in pushing this ideology, but it goes beyond the ABC. This is essentially a social credit system-
Adam Creighton:
It is.
Rita Panahi:
… a Chinese Communist Party style social credit system for the corporate world.
Adam Creighton:
Yeah. Look, that’s exactly right. The ideology is extremely far left, extremely totalitarian, and you can make the same arguments with big corporates too. The vast majority of shareholders in those companies, be it through their super funds or directly, would not have the same values as that organisation at all, and yet the boards of these companies are syphoning money to it. It’s wrong and it’s good that it’s being brought to our attention. It’s a sad fact that the elites of our society, their views are completely opposed to the vast bulk of people. That’s the sad reality at the moment.
Rita Panahi:
Now, before you go, Jack, I’ve got to get your input into this news. This is good news. This network, Sky News Australia, has cemented itself as one of the world’s, the world’s, most popular political news channels online. We broke into the top 10 most watched news channels on YouTube globally, finishing in ninth position ahead of the BBC. Jack, it’s an incredible result. You are heading the digital team. You can take a lot of credit for that. Are there any other Australian broadcasters in that top 10 list?
Jack Houghton:
No, they’re not even close. And Rita, I know why you love this story because you’re our number one performer there on YouTube. We’ve obviously got Power Hour with Gabriella Power, who’s sensational as well. And the format that I think that you guys do so well is, if there is something that’s difficult to talk about, you’re up for the challenge. You’re in there to have a crack at it, debate things that are maybe a little bit more contentious than other broadcasters, and people are screaming out for that. They’re crying out for conversations that are more engaging, that they aren’t just these cookie-cutter, replicated conversations where everybody says the same predictable, boring thing.
And I think that it’s a testament to the work you do, Rita, that you’ve got so many people internationally that follow you. It’s a testament to the work that you and your team do. It’s great to see.
Rita Panahi:
Thank you so much.
Adam Creighton:
And also the great local guests, also the great local guests too.
Rita Panahi:
The great local guests. Let’s never forget Adam Creighton. Thank you so much for your time tonight. And Jack Houghton, congratulations to you and the rest of the digital team, an incredible result.
This transcript with Adam Creighton on The Rita Panahi Show Sky News Australia from 8 December 2025 has been edited for clarity.
