In this interview Mia Schlicht appeared on Credlin – Sky News Australia to discuss the IPA’s research on the views of mainstream Australians towards the ABC.
All media appearances posted onto the IPA website are directly related to the promotion and dissemination of IPA research.
Below is a transcript of the interview.
Jack Houghton:
But first, the ABC has replaced one of its more popular radio hosts, Sarah Macdonald for Hamish Macdonald, but it hasn’t gone as planned. The Daily Telly reports, “ABC Radio Sydney’s big gamble to axe female host in favour of Hamish Macdonald appears to have been rejected by audiences. Data released this week shows a continuing trend of listeners following through on threats to abandon the public broadcaster over the controversial decision that left the audience and the industry alike dismayed. Latest figures show that Hamish Macdonald’s audience has dropped again to 4.6% share of the Sydney Morning’s time slot, representing a further decline of a 0.9 of a percentage point.”
Well, joining me this week to discuss is Managing Editor at The Australian, Darren Davidson, and Research Fellow at the Institute of Public Affairs, Mia Schlicht. Well, Darren, let’s start with you. What do you make of that? The ABC has been trying really hard to get listeners back on the radio. A bit of a strange decision to get rid of a host that was, for all intents and purposes, quite beloved.
Darren Davidson:
Agree. I’m baffled by it. I think it reflects this kind of top-down programming decision-making that happens at the ABC where preferences and decisions are based on not the broader demographic and the wider audience across the whole country, but the preoccupations of the audience in ultimate. And he’s beloved by his industry peers, gets industry awards and things like that, but does he appeal-
Jack Houghton:
To the every man?
Darren Davidson:
No. I would argue that he doesn’t and it just feels like ideological curation to me.
Jack Houghton:
Yeah, very interesting. Mia, let’s bring you in. Welcome to the show. Great to have you here. What did you make of some of that data that we saw around the continuing decline of the ABC Radio programming? Was it linked to this decision or do you think people are just switching off a product that’s maybe passed it’s use by date?
Mia Schlicht:
Thanks for having me. Yeah, certainly if the ABC wanted to see their ratings collapse, they have certainly achieved that here. But yeah, I think it goes to this broader point that the ABC just isn’t the cultural institution it once was, and mainstream Australians just see straight through their structural bias and that’s why they’re turning off. If you don’t live in the inner city, if you’re part of one of the regional communities, then the ABC just doesn’t represent you and this is happening time and time again and the ABC doesn’t seem to be learning from any of their decisions. Just take one look at Q&A. That used to be their flagship programme, and even that’s now collapsed.
Jack Houghton:
Mia raises such a good point about Q&A. I think that that is a fundamental programme that a national broadcaster should have. I think if you can’t manage that, it raises questions about everything else. Do you agree?
Darren Davidson:
I agree, and I think the important thing here is that audience trust and relevance should become before internal politics. And that was quite an innovative programme format to begin with, but just looks very tired now and I think it’s lost the trust of the audience.
Jack Houghton:
It stopped driving news lines and it started being a whole bunch of teals MPs. You got three out of the four panellists were progressive and they said very boring things like, “Hey, we’re against crime and we believe in equality.” Nothing there that was intellectually stimulating and you basically just turn it off. But anyway, look, let’s move on now to the UK where illegal immigration has become the number one issue in the country and there has been some incredible reporting by the likes of GB News and some of the newspapers about human trafficking gangs and illegal migrant hotels costing unfathomable sums of money. But one media outlet is coping a little bit of flak, and that is the BBC.
News presenter:
Anti-migrant protests spread last night to Diss in Norfolk where residents turned on the BBC.
Protestor:
Hi, BBC. I just want to ask. You know how you all covered up the sexual assaults and rape perpetrated by the Muslims in Rochdale? Is that what you’re planning to do to this as well? Are you going to let young girls suffer because of your incompetence because you’re told not to report on the truth about what’s going to happen? That’s good leave. Don’t answer what the public have to say, just leave.
Jack Houghton:
Well, Mia, quite rightfully, the groups of people protesting are very frustrated at this fundamental failing by an institution which would traditionally report on these sorts of crimes and gangs and what we now know in the UK. You’ve got politicians such as Keir Starmer himself, is conceding this is a major issue, which to me is an incredible shift from where we were even a year or two ago on this issue. But the BBC, it failed in its duty in much to the same way that we might criticise the ABC for ideological group think. What do you make of the fact that the public is now putting pressure back onto this public institution and asking why it failed to report on these issues?
Mia Schlicht:
Well, yeah, you’re absolutely right there that the BBC has failed. And this is just a classic example of these elitist institutions like the BBC where if a certain narrative doesn’t suit their worldview, then they don’t shed any light on it. It is just continuous and I think it’s important to note that the BBC, like the ABC, it was created in a time where there wasn’t much diversity in the media market, but now Australians and those in the UK, there are so many different media outlets that they’re able to get their news sources from that they can see straight through these structural biases and they can get their information elsewhere. And I think that’s why they’re turning off.
Jack Houghton:
Yeah, it’s such a good point, Mia. And also, Darren, that’s why some of these organisations like to control the flow of information. They haven’t figured out how to adapt. The BBC, as you are well aware with all your reporting in the media sector, is a subscription-based model, but it’s a mandatory one. If you’ve got a television, then they go up to Brits and they demand that they pay money even if there’s no intent to even use the service.
Darren Davidson:
Yep.
Jack Houghton:
Different model to what we’ve got in Australia here with the ABC, but I think it’s facing this fundamental crisis where if the audience and the general public overwhelmingly doesn’t want to service anymore and it loses that faith and that trust, it becomes an existential problem.
Darren Davidson:
Yep. I think there are these big parallels here with the ABC in the way that it covers illegal immigration. At times, the BBC has for me, looked like it’s more concerned about the tone of its coverage and not fitting progressive narratives, and frankly, has not just been cautious in its coverage of illegal immigration and the scale and the cost and the impact on taxpayers of that, but actually complicit in it in terms of downplaying the consequences and human trafficking and related issues and things like that.
Look, good on the Daily Telegraph in the UK and GB News, they’ve actually held government, other institutions to account over this issue. And those scenes that you played, they are incredible with the public turning on the BBC reporters.
Jack Houghton:
GB News has one reporter that’s gone and found all of the smuggling games, at a time that the police said it was difficult to smash the games. And he said, “Okay. Well, watch me.”
Darren Davidson:
Yeah, good on them.
Jack Houghton:
Yeah, incredible stuff. We’re moving on now, back to Australia, and Parliament has resumed, and that means that our politicians are hard at work. And obviously, these politicians have been mocked relentlessly in the comments of their own social media posts. And my favourite was this one from a user who wrote, “Using debt to pay off more debt, while the same generation pays off said debt with increased taxes.” But the cringe and the gloating continued.
And meanwhile, the Coalition’s new leader, Susan Ley, was also tipping her toes into the apparently very new world of social media with this power shot. No policies, not much substance, but a very confident strut. Let’s bring the panel back in.
Mia, love to get your thoughts. Maybe demographically, you are more the target audience than perhaps me, but I look at this stuff and I see, yes, there’s a Party that’s quite rightfully gloating. They won a lot of seats, good for them, but I think they missed the mark with punters who just want them to get on with the job. And instead, we’re getting this mimicry of these Telstra ads, doing this weird elephant dance. I don’t think that this works. I don’t think that it resonates, but am I wrong? What do you make of it?
Mia Schlicht:
No, I think you’re completely right. It’s cringe. It’s just so cringe and it’s almost like all these politicians have been given a briefing and they’ve said, “Hey, if you want to get young people inside, then jump on Instagram and do a 30-second little silly Instagram dance.” But I think it misses the mark because, well, young people, we’re living in a time where our future is very, very uncertain. Things aren’t looking good for us as a cost of living crisis, power bills are through the roof, grocery bills are through the roof, and that dream of buying a house just getting further and further and further away.
So I think for young people sitting at home watching these dances and kind of almost a mockery being made of their day-to-day jobs, it’s quite frustrating because we’re sitting here thinking, “Well, can you take the issues that I’m facing seriously?”
Jack Houghton:
Yeah, I completely agree with that as well. It’s an infantilizing kind of movement and Mia is so right. They’re sitting around there with their social media teams and you’ve got young people telling these old politicians, “Hey, this is how you appeal to younger people. Younger people want this.”
Darren Davidson:
Yep.
Jack Houghton:
I think younger people want an affordable way to enter the housing market. I think young people don’t want them to lie about building 1.2 million homes in order to win an election. I think there’s these fundamental structural things. I look at it, maybe I’m being a bit grumpy about it, but it looks asinine to me and it looks childish, and it makes me think that there’s a lot of savings to be made in some of those taxpayer-funded teams.
Darren Davidson:
100%. I think both young and old voters, to your point, they can tell the difference between optics and outcomes and they’re savvy to that fact, and they don’t want to see strutting. They want to see substance. The Coalition has a real opportunity here following the election to differentiate itself from the government with some credible economic policies and things that tackle the housing crisis, and they’re completely failing to do that.
Jack Houghton:
Well, that’s the Coalition as to blame. They’re sitting there with their power struts and it’s great female representation and everything, but there has to be a subsequent policy that follows that more symbolic photo, rather than this powerful pink strutting suit. To me, equally as asinine.
Darren Davidson:
Tone deaf and patronising.
Jack Houghton:
Darren and Mia, thank you so much for joining me. Really appreciate it.
This transcript of Mia Schlicht on The Media Show – Sky News Australia from 28 July 2025 has been edited for clarity.
