Rita Panahi:
Joining me now is Deputy Executive Director at the Institute of Public Affairs, Dan Wild. Dan, the Libs, particularly the moderate Libs, are leaking like sieves today. They’ve been briefing the media all day saying Littleproud has lied, that he’s misled, that he blindsided the liberal leadership team. What is the way forward? Is it going to be a case will be that Littleproud needs to go or Ley needs to go?
Daniel Wild:
Well, one of them’s going to go. That’s clear. But the context for this has been one of the worst weeks in our democracy since World War II, what happened in Canberra. And I was in Canberra earlier this week with some of my colleagues briefing MPs about the terrible anti-hate group laws and just everything about it, the process, the outcome, the fact that so few MPs seem to actually understand the true reach of these powers. And I think anybody who voted no on this legislation for any reason deserves to be applauded. And in the Senate, you only had Alex Antic. From the Liberal Party, of course, you had many national senators, you had One Nation, you had the Greens, you had David Pocock, for example, you had other independent MPs who voted no.
So whatever the reason, people should be applauded for voting no, because these are some of the worst laws that have been passed in peacetime history aside from the COVID era laws. And in fact, these laws appear that they were drafted during the COVID era. They were sort of dusted off and brought out because the government saw an opportunity to pass their hate speech laws, which what they’ve always wanted to do. And the fact that the Liberal Party basically just rolled over on this is the real story here. Now whether… I mean, the leadership almost doesn’t matter at this point. They have sold out the Australian people going along with these laws. So this is not a matter of weeks in terms of solving the problem with the coalition. This is going to take years.
Rita Panahi:
This is just such a fundamental issue. And it shocks me that so many liberal politicians seem to be blind to just how significant this was. This is about free speech. This is about a fundamental human right. And Dan, they seem to be oblivious to the importance of this. Even as they watch their poll numbers plummet, they’re down to 21% with their primary vote in news poll. They’re now trailing One Nation and yet they keep supporting policies that almost guarantee their support base is going to diminish further.
Daniel Wild:
Well, exactly right. I mean, that’s basically the long and the short of the politics of it. And if you want to know why One Nation’s doing well, just look what happened this week in Canberra. But the other point I want to make is a lot of MPs have attempted to assuage their guilt or embarrassment by saying that there’s safeguards around these laws, that it’s going to be groups like Hizb ut-Tahrir and Nazi groups that are going to be disbanded. But this is not true. The legislation doesn’t ban Hizb ut-Tahrir, but that’s just… People just need to understand that no group is listed in the legislation. The legislation just gives the Minister for Home Affairs the power to ban those groups. Now, whether he does or not, maybe he will, maybe he won’t, but that’s another matter. There’s only one real safeguard here, and that’s the Senate or the House could disallow a listing that has been made.
But all of the other safeguards listed, they are incredibly, incredibly thin. And by the way, there’s no limit to the groups that can be named. So any group in society can be a target of the government, and that can be done for any reason. The minister just has to be satisfied of certain conditions that are listed. And yes, there’s provisions around the ASIO and the role that they play, but again, go through the legislation and you’ll see that this is incredibly thin. And I’m just in disbelief that within basically two or three days, some of the most far-reaching draconian legislation we’ve ever seen in our nation’s history, aside from COVID, has gone through Parliament. This is going to be with us for a long time.
Rita Panahi:
And we’ve seen the liberal moderates, so they’re bedwetters, they’re having a full-blown tantrum with this split within the coalition. They’re blaming Matt Canavan saying, “He’s the one pulling the strings.” How do you see that? How do you see what the liberals’ leadership is going to look like down the track? Because as you mentioned, only Senator Alex Antic voted against this legislation. So the other leadership contenders are also going to have to explain how they could back these draconian laws. So someone like an Andrew Hastie, how is he going to convince disaffected conservatives to come back to the Liberal Party when he voted for these laws? If he becomes leader, I’m getting ahead of myself.
Daniel Wild:
You know, that’s… Yeah. Yeah. I don’t know. I don’t know how they explain it. That’s up to them. How do they explain it and justify these laws and we’ll wait and see what they have to say. In terms of the broader sort of picture here, I mean, yeah, blame Matt Canavan. I mean, they hate what they ain’t. Everybody knows that Canavan and others like Senator Alex Antic, they did the right thing. And I think Canavan made an incredibly important point when he said, “This is basically entrenching identity politics into legislation by having different rights for different groups. And this is a backdoor to the Voice to Parliament, which 60% of Australians voted against.” I mean, can we stop with the sectarian and racial division in this country? I mean, Australians have just had a gut full of it.
Rita Panahi:
Dan, do you see this decision to split as mutually assured destruction? Are we seeing the right side of politics fracture hopelessly or is this going to see the birth of a new conservative coalition that people actually want, perhaps One Nation and the Nationals getting together? They seem to be far better aligned than the Libs and the Nationals.
Daniel Wild:
Yeah, it’s an interesting question. It could do. I don’t know whether One Nation would want to do that at this point. They’re in a stronger position, so I’m not sure they’d want to do that, but it is an interesting question. I think a split was always going to happen again. I was an advocate of the Liberal Party and National Party not rejoining as a coalition the first time they had the split before they actually figured out what they believe in. And so I always thought something like this would happen again. So I don’t necessarily think a split is a bad thing in and of itself. If it means that the National Party feels it can be a stronger voice for the things that it believes in now, whether it does that or not, I’ve got no idea. But yeah, in terms of a new party or a new coalition, I don’t think that will happen in the near future.
But as we get closer to the next election, and if the polls don’t go up for either the Nationals or the Liberals, then I think everything would be on the table.
Rita Panahi:
Now let’s move on to Australia Day. An IPA poll has found that 76% of Australians support Australia Day being celebrated on January 26th. This is up from 69% last year and 63% in 2024. Dan, there was also an increase in support among young Australians, 18 to 24 year olds.
Daniel Wild:
Well, that’s right. I mean, these results are incredibly encouraging, particularly against the backdrop of a lot of the negativity that we faced over the last week and really since Bondi. And these results are just about the highest they’ve ever been in terms of support for Australia Day. And as you say, 18 to 24 year olds is at 83% support. And that’s basically where the 65 plus category is as well. So what we’re seeing is a surge in patriotism among young Australians. And there’s a couple of reasons for this. I think what has happened is being against Australia Day was kind of hijacked by corporations and other civil societies who were basically trying to make money from it. And I think a lot of younger Australians understood that they were being taken advantage of.
The other thing is with the proliferation of digital and social media, young Australians now have access to information, well, provided you’re above 16 years old, and then you’ve got your social media ban, if you’re under 16, but if you’re of age where you’re allowed to have a social media account, you can access different information that you haven’t been told at school or at university.
And a lot of people are realising that what they have been told by those institutions is not the full story about our country or about our history. So I think that’s what’s driving the surge in support.
Rita Panahi:
Daniel Wild, thanks for your time tonight.
This transcript with Daniel Wild talking on The Rita Panahi Show – Sky News Australia from 22 January 2025 has been edited for clarity.
