In this interview Daniel Wild appeared on The Bolt Report – Sky News Australia to discuss the IPA’s research into peak woke in Australia.
All media appearances posted onto the IPA website are directly related to the promotion and dissemination of IPA research.
Below is a transcript of the interview.
James Macpherson:
Well, welcome back to the programme. Joining me, Gemma Tognini from GT Communications and Dan Wild from the Institute of Public Affairs. Charlie Kirk’s alleged killer Tyler Robinson has appeared in court for the first time. Utah prosecutors unveiled seven charges against him and outlined evidence including a series of texts which appear to show a confession to his partner. As I showed you at the top of the show, Utah County Attorney Jeff Grey outlined the evidence against Robinson, including DNA on the trigger of the rifle, used to kill Charlie Kirk matching Tyler Robinson. Prosecutors have said they will seek the death penalty if Robinson is convicted.
Jeff Gray:
We did file just recently within the last few minutes a notice of intent to seek the death penalty that was filed by Utah County Attorney Jeff Grey. So that should be in the court’s file.
James Macpherson:
Gemma, let me start with you. From what we’re learning, the accused was the source of the hatred, not the victim of it.
Gemma Tognini:
Look, that seems to be the picture that is taking shape in the last few days, although those of us who have been watching, I suppose the recent history of these violent attacks in America particularly are not surprised. And it’s just heart-ending, I have to say, James, full confession. I’ve been thinking a lot of Tyler Robinson’s parents and family, his father turned him in. There is nothing but carnage everywhere you look with this crime.
But certainly I wouldn’t position the accused man as any kind of victim, to be honest with you. I don’t understand the kind of brokenness that leads to that kind of crime of which he’s facing the allegations of, and potentially the death penalty for.
James Macpherson:
Well, Daniel, I’m no supporter of the death penalty, but in this instance, I’m sympathetic. It needs to be applied if Robinson is found guilty because authorities have to send a strongest message about this kind of crime, don’t they?
Daniel Wild:
Well, I share your perspective. I’m not a fan of the death penalty other than in very select set of circumstances. Now, this gets very close to that line. This was a public execution carried out within the context of a political and ideological conflict going on in the United States in a matter that was premeditated and calculated. So it gets very close to that line, but I don’t personally support it.
One of the reasons, James, is because I’d hate for this just to go away. I’d hate for it just to be the case that if this individual were to be put to death by the authorities, that we would say, well, that’s job done. Because yes, he needs to be 100% held responsible. But let’s not forget the social context within which this occurred. All of the institutions, many arms of the media, the nodes of cultural production, have created a society within which a permission structure has been created, where it’s okay to dehumanise your political opponents and to think of them as evil. This was always the point that we were making about Trump. If you start with Trump, it’ll keep getting applied to other people. When they called Trump fascist, when they implied or directly said that people’s lives were at risk, if Trump won, this was always going to create a cauldron within which something like this tragically became increasingly likely.
Gemma Tognini:
I think the other thing-
James Macpherson:
[inaudible 00:03:44] right on that point.
Gemma Tognini:
… add to what Daniel was saying. If you wouldn’t mind if I could just add to what Daniel was saying, there’s the other issue is if the death penalty is applied and I’m just as conflicted rather as both of you are, there’s the canonization and the martyrdom by those who share his extreme views, and that can have a potential impact for a domino effect that is completely unintended as well.
James Macpherson:
Yeah, there is that to consider. You’re absolutely right, Gemma. Here at home, Senator Fatima Payman has described Charlie Kirk as an awful person and appeared to make fun of his death in a video broadcast on TikTok. Have a look at this and I want to get your thoughts.
Fatima Payman:
So what do I think about Charlie Kirk and obviously his assassination? I think he was a pretty awful person and he doesn’t deserve all the recognition he’s getting. It would’ve been best to not have him assassinated and for him to remain a footnote in the Trumpian era of the United States. Charlie Kirk got shot and he’s RIP. Whatever you want RIP to stand for.
James Macpherson:
Daniel, it’s just dangerous, isn’t it? A federal senator shrugging off an assassination like that?
Daniel Wild:
Well, why doesn’t she go to the US and say that to his wife? See how that goes down? I think that Senator Payman has a pattern of repeated behaviour of engaging in this self-interested headline grabbing behaviour. She talks about footnotes. Well, she’s going to be a footnote in history in three years time. She was elected on the Labour ticket in Western Australia. She defected. She had vanishingly few votes that were cast directly towards her, and I think Western Australians are counting down the days when they can just see the back of her because to be frank, I can’t think of any constructive contribution she’s made to debate. And I think this is really just the cherry on top. I mean, probably the only beneficial thing to come out of all of this berserk behaviour by the left has been for the masks to slip. And so Australians can see what they’re really like.
James Macpherson:
Gemma, the state of the federal Senate is so depressing. And the other thing about Senator Payman is she’s the one who’s supposed to be connecting with young people. So spreading messages like that on TikTok is just… I mean, I was going to say it’s incredibly unhelpful. That’s an understatement.
Gemma Tognini:
The first thing that struck me as I watched that video is how immature she is. She’s like a teenage girl at best. She’s university level at best. It was so full of status anxiety that it’s cringe-worthy. Absolutely, as a former West Australian, and I’m in WA. At the moment as a former West Australian voter, I can tell you that Senator Payman betrayed the people of Western Australia when she defected the Labour Party. She was gifted, and let me use that word deliberately. She was gifted a position in the Senate to serve the people of Western Australia by the Labour Party, and she betrayed the Labour Party because of self-appointed sense of self-interest and an inflated sense of importance.
She has done nothing, delivered nothing, will deliver nothing. She’s electorally irrelevant, has no voting power on her own. And as Dan absolutely accurately said, when the electoral cycle rolls around, it’s she who will be a footnote on a really sparsely read Wikipedia page that people will forget in good time. And I think what she just said about a man being blown away in front of the world, who’s a father of two little toddlers and has a grieving wife left behind, what she said is an awful, awful reflection of her character and her lack of empathy for another human being.
James Macpherson:
Well, it’s often been said that contradiction isn’t a bug in progressive ideology. It’s a feature and nothing demonstrates it better than this. Senator Maisie Hirono is outraged that the FBI requires female applicants to perform a single pull-up as a part of their physical. Have a look at this.
Mazie Hirono:
You are now requiring applicants to be able to do a certain kind of pull-ups, which a lot of women cannot because of physiological differences.
Kash Patel:
FBI agents carrying guns in the field have to chase down bad guys and do really hard work. The physical fitness standards of those agents are appropriate-
Mazie Hirono:
So are you requiring these signs of pull-ups?
Kash Patel:
We are requiring everybody to pass the 18-11 standards at BFTC. If you want to chase down a bad guy-
Mazie Hirono:
Excuse me-
Kash Patel:
And put him in handcuffs, you better be able to do a pull-up.
Mazie Hirono:
The reason I ask is that there are concerns about whether or not being able to do these kinds of harsh pull-ups is really required of FBI agents.
Kash Patel:
Doing one pull-up is not harsh.
James Macpherson:
Now, Gemma, Democrats have spent the past decade insisting biological men identifying as women have no physical advantage, not in sport or anything else, and now they insist it’s unfair to have women do a single pull-up because they’re not as strong as men.
Gemma Tognini:
I mean, that’s just laughable. Can I just tell you, every woman that I train with in my cohort of gym buddies can do pull-ups? I’m blaming my dodgy left shoulder for the moment. I’m not allowed to. But it is not hard to achieve a single body weight pull up if you are consistent in your training. And none of my friends that I’m referring to are in the FBI. They all have office jobs or they’re partially working from home. That is an excellent representation of the hypocrisy of the woke left side of politics that as you say, one minute, we can’t define a woman. The next minute, well, this is really mean because women aren’t as strong as men. I mean, pick a horse and ride it, people.
James Macpherson:
Exactly. And Daniel, this is a great example of just how ludicrous the whole DEI thing is. I mean, the FBI is for the best of the best to catch the worst of the worst, not some place to conduct social experiments.
Daniel Wild:
Well, look, that’s exactly right. It’s pretty common sense, isn’t it? When you look at it, there’s a set of standards that need to be applied and they apply to men and women because both men and women need to be dealing as Kash Patel said there with the bad guys. So I think this senator has just made herself to look like a bit of a fool. And I’ve got to say, and I’m a bit ashamed to say it, but I think there’s probably a lot of women in the gym that I go to would certainly put me to shame on the pull-ups and so forth. So I don’t know, I think the Senators sort of pulled the wrong rein on this one.
James Macpherson:
The three of us will have to go to the gym sometime and we’ll see how you fare, Gemma. Maybe you’ll out do Dan and I.
Gemma Tognini:
Just say you’re in rehab, Dan, you’re fine. Just blame your dodgy shoulder. It works a treat.
Daniel Wild:
Yeah.
James Macpherson:
Hey, Dan and I have been in rehab for a long time, the both of us. Thanks to Gemma and Dan. I appreciate your time
This transcript of Daniel Wild speaking on The Bolt Report – Sky News Australia from 17 September 2025 has been edited for clarity.
