In this interview Colleen Harkin appeared on The Rita Panahi Show – Sky News Australia to discuss the IPA’s research into the level of wokeness in Australia.
All media appearances posted onto the IPA website are directly related to the promotion and dissemination of IPA research.
Below is a transcript of the interview.
RIta Panahi:
Let’s bring in the panel. Joining me now for more on this is News Corp, senior writer Patrick Carlyon and research fellow at the Institute of Public Affairs, Colleen Harkin.
Patrick, everything I’ve described in this story speaks of a deeply sick society. You’re talking about the crime itself, absolutely sickening. But what’s happened since this manifestly inadequate sentence and the fact that we’ve got this male sexual predator housed in a woman’s prison?
Patrick Carlyon:
Yes. Look, this is something we’ve been writing about for years in the papers. Men, or people who identify as women who are biologically male, who are sex offenders, are being put in women prisons, which is terrifying for the other women prisoners for lots of really obvious reasons.
Now, the idea that this offender in this case got two and a half years because this person was confused about their gender? It absolutely does not pass any common sense test on any level. Does it?
And it really introduces a really important issue. Are we going to have loopholes? Are we going to have sex offenders who are male saying, “I’m confused about my gender,” and getting shorter sentences because of it.
RIta Panahi:
Getting shorter sentences, Colleen. And also, the prospect of being housed in a women’s prison, which would be far more palatable for any male prisoner. But particularly, if you’ve got someone who’s a sexual predator. They’ve got a captive population there. And these women in prison often have histories where they’ve been victims of violence, victims of sexual abuse themselves. And to have someone like that housed with them. What about their human rights?
Colleen Harkin:
Yeah, there’s a high percentage of women in prison who have been victims of sexual abuse themselves. And that’s part of their journey is to how they’ve ended up there. To be housed with somebody who’s done that to someone else. There is nothing more heinous than sexual abuse of a child, a five-year-old child. There’s nobody more in need of protection. And a two and a half year sentence on this is just so manifestly inadequate.
The other thing that is to be noted is that it doesn’t matter whether it’s a male or a female who has done this. The sentence is just inadequate. And the judge’s comment that they thought that the guy or the transitioning person wouldn’t do it again unless it was under some duress from a male. Actually, it definitionally means that they’re not really sure that it wouldn’t happen again.
There’s just no recognition of the seriousness, the absolute disgracefulness of the crime and the sentencing that they’ve put with it.
RIta Panahi:
Nevermind whether they think it’s going to happen again or not. It’s already happened. How about punishing the offence? It shouldn’t just be about rehabilitation or the chances of re-offending. What about actually punishing the offence? And that seems to have been lost in the criminal justice process where offenders rights seem to be at the forefront of the people in that bureaucracy.
Colleen Harkin:
Especially, when you see it’s a two and a half year sentence that could have had a maximum of 25 years. That’s 10% of what was available to them.
RIta Panahi:
Astonishing.
Now let’s move on to the Australian Services Union slamming the Jacinta Allan government over the appointment of Merri-bek City Council CEO, Cathy Henderson. She’s going to become the new boss of WorkSafe amid accusations that while she was with the council, she breached workplace safety protocols and failed to protect staff following a drag story time event. Of course, it was.
Australian Services Union, Victorian branch secretary Tash Wark said, “The very organisation she’s now to lead, found that she had failed to adhere to the OHS Act and had to step in to override her and protect the interests of her own staff.”
Colleen, this council, we speak about it a fair bit on this programme. It’s one of the worst Merri-bek Council. And Ms. Henderson was there and she signed off on half a million dollar name change. It used to be called Moreland Council. No one seemed to have a problem with that until the council decided that was deeply racist. It had some association with a Jamaican slave estate and they changed the name. It’s almost like a comedy sketch, only nobody’s laughing.
Colleen Harkin:
This is the woke of the woke rewarding the woke. These roles should be about competence and independence, and obviously, this is the Allan government rewarding one of their own.
As you said, she’s been involved in the millions of dollars spent on a name change to what end and for what purpose really? And it’s an example of Victoria rotting from the inside out. It doesn’t matter whether you’re competent or independent, it’s the Allan government looking after their own.
RIta Panahi:
And if I remember correctly, Merri-bek was in the news just recently because they sacked a street sweeper for questioning the merits of having these lengthy welcome acknowledgement of countries before every meeting. And again, the court found that he was unfairly dismissed.
So this is not a council that’s particularly well run from what I can see, Patrick. But this is a big role. We’re talking about the head of WorkSafe and there are all sorts of issues with WorkSafe itself in this state.
Patrick Carlyon:
Absolutely. Look, the themes of the criticism, I think she was described as being unfit for the role and WorkSafe not being a place for her, really struck me. I wonder as a journalist, is there more to this story? Is there more that we don’t don’t know here, because the evidence presented to make those comments wasn’t that strong.
RIta Panahi:
Yes.
Patrick Carlyon:
And I suspect it’s probably more.
RIta Panahi:
That’s interesting. There is. I do wonder whether there’s some Labour Party-Union factional wars that we’re not fully across. But we’re happy to hear from Ms. Henderson if she wants to come on the programme and put her side forward.
Now let’s talk about the Sydney Morning Herald’s report on the cost of Sydney’s largest metro rail line project, the Sydney Metro West. It’s said to blow out by at least $2 billion due to the skyrocketing price of building underground train stations. And there’s been all sorts of delays to awarding major contracts that’s also caused this blowout in the budget.
Patrick, the [inaudible 00:06:22] labour government was wavering on this big project. Can labour governments anywhere deliver projects on time and on budget?
Patrick Carlyon:
Well, as a Victorian, as Paul Keating would say, “This is a beautiful set of numbers.” You look at the North East link down here, it was originally going to cost $10 billion and then it was $16 billion. Now it’s $26 billion. That’s assuming they ever finish it. I drive through there virtually every day.
No, these things don’t get done by labour governments. And it’s interesting. Look, in New South Wales, they’re complaining about the blowouts, but these blowouts are nothing like we see down here. You look at the suburban rail loop, we just had our Premier go to China with cap in hand begging for drills and investment in something that the federal government refuses to invest in.
Yes, it’s certainly a pattern.
RIta Panahi:
Yeah, Colleen $2 billion is nothing really. When you look at the Victorian blowouts in these projects, and we could go through the long list. There’s a reason why Victoria’s got the biggest debt of any state.
Colleen Harkin:
But isn’t that part of the problem? That we laugh and we say, “$2 billion.”
RIta Panahi:
$2 billion.
Colleen Harkin:
And I think we just wash it away because we’re getting so used to these overruns. And people who don’t seem to understand how to do a project management, a business case, and make sure that projects are delivered on time and in budget.
We do. We just now wash away billions of dollars being wasted because we can’t see our way out of it. We can’t see people who are competent enough to do these jobs. Victoria and the Southern Metro rail loop or whatever the SLR, whatever it’s called that is in a very similar situation. No business case. Billions of dollars are being spent and no one has oversight into actually managing the project properly.
RIta Panahi:
And it’s incredible that they go over budgets so much because they put a lot of fat in it when they put it together and they still manage to go over budget.
Now, let’s go to an issue that I love discussing on this programme. JK Rowling, she may be of the left, but when it comes to the issue of women’s rights, she’s very sound, very bold and brave.
And the Harry Potter author has now put Emma Watson in her place. She played Hermione Granger. Actress Emma Watson said, “That while she disagrees with JK Rowling’s views on transgenderism, she still appreciates her contributions to her career.” Good of you, Emma, to say that.
JK Rowling had quite a lengthy response. This is part of it. She said, “Like other people who’ve never experienced adult life uncushioned by wealth and fame, Emma has so little experience of real life. She’s ignorant of how ignorant she is. I wasn’t a multimillionaire at 14. I lived in poverty while writing the book that made Emma famous. I therefore understand from my own life experience what the trashing of women’s rights in which Emma has so enthusiastically participated means to women and girls without her privilege.”
Ouch. That is fantastic, Patrick, I’ve got to say. Beautifully written. And she also accused Emma Watson of pouring petrol on the flames of abuse. She was personally suffering defending women’s rights. That’s just beautiful. I always want to read it again. She did it so well.
Patrick Carlyon:
Very articulate, isn’t it? And she makes that point. When Emma Watson spoke out a few years ago that actually created major dramas in her own life. She had security, she was getting death threats, all sorts of things.
Look, as a Harry Potter fan, it makes me sad that two of the most important people who contributed to something so wonderful are fighting publicly about this. But that’s a massive take-down and it’s very articulate as you say.
RIta Panahi:
It’s beautifully put. And I think she’s been waiting to do this now that-
Patrick Carlyon:
Probably.
RIta Panahi:
… Emma’s a young woman. She’s by no means a child. She just graduated from university. She’s been working in the industry for a long time.
And it’s interesting that Emma Watson’s been a little bit more conciliatory towards JK Rowling because the mood has changed. A few years ago, she felt very comfortable putting the boots into the woman who made her famous. But now, I guess she can see that the narrative has shifted. The culture’s shifted.
Colleen Harkin:
Yeah, I wonder how much of this is just actually self-serving on Emma Watson’s part because as you say, for several years she was incredibly ungrateful and unkind about JK Rowling. And to Patrick’s point, JK Rowling had death threats from the things that were being said around the time.
RIta Panahi:
Daily. Daily.
Colleen Harkin:
And now that the trans movement is maybe not quite so popular, I do wonder whether Emma Watson is just doing it to position herself a little bit differently.
JK Rowling said that just because she’s created a character, Emma Watson doesn’t have to agree with everything that she said for the entire life. She’s entitled to her view and to publicly express her view. But so is JK Rowling. And all power to her for doing it.
RIta Panahi:
And I think she sees a fair bit of cowardice. And the way she’s wavering on this issue, I think proves that cowardice. Because if you were as strong as you were on it a few years ago, then why have you shifted your position? Or are you just reading the room and doing whatever the culture’s telling you to do?
Now before you to go, I’ve got to get your opinion. This is the debates that get people going. Let’s have a look at this mid-flight argument over seat space and see where you two stand on this.
Passenger 1:
Not a lot of room here for me.
Passenger 2:
I know.
Passenger 1:
I paid for the seat too.
Passenger 2:
I paid for the seat as well.
Passenger 1:
Right. But wouldn’t you think you’d want to at least share the armrest?
Passenger 2:
Yes. We’re not sharing the armrest right now. Right now, you are using the armrest because you elbowed me to get out.
Passenger 1:
How am I? I’m not even on the armrest.
Passenger 2:
I’m not on the armrest either.
Passenger 1:
Actually, you are.
Passenger 2:
No, I’m not.
Okay, I’m sorry. Yes. My fat rolls are on the armrest. I’m so sorry, sir.
Sir? How do you think I should solve this problem?
RIta Panahi:
Well, here’s the way you can solve it, Patrick. If your body mass extends to two seats, then you pay for two seats. The selfishness here in my mind is out of control.
Of course, it’s not pleasant and it’s not a conversation anybody would want to have. But surely, if you know an airline seat is going to be too small for you and you’re going to be spilling out to the neighbouring seat, you travel less. You pay for two seats.
Patrick Carlyon:
Do we need bigger seats? Do we need to pay more?
RIta Panahi:
No, because then I’m paying more and I could fit into the seat. Thank you.
Patrick Carlyon:
Watching two overweight people, fat shame one another is always going-
RIta Panahi:
Yeah, because the other guy, the bigger one, also fat shamed, the smaller one is that you are no waif either. Where do you sit on this, Colleen?
Colleen Harkin:
No, I disagree with Patrick. I also fit into one seat and shouldn’t have to pay for two. But it is part of this scenario where there’s this fat liberation movement. And even using words like fat shaming, we’ve moved into this situation of celebrating obesity and we shouldn’t.
We should actually be kind to these people and tell them the truth. And say that if you are overweight, it is in your best interest to lose weight because there are associated health problems with it. And we’re not doing anyone any favours pretending that having to take two seats is an okay thing.
RIta Panahi:
And the body positivity movement, Patrick, I’ve had quite a few doctors comment on how awkward it is now to give honest advice to their patients because they’re accused of fat shaming. Instead of telling them the obvious, I would’ve thought.
Colleen Harkin, Patrick Carlyon, body positivity advocate. Thank you for your time tonight.
This transcript of Colleen Harkin speaking on The Rita Panahi Show – Sky News Australia from 30 September 2025 has been edited for clarity.
