In this interview, Adam Creighton appeared on The Power Hour on Sky News Australia to discuss the IPA’s research on immigration.
All media appearances posted onto the IPA website are directly related to the promotion and dissemination of IPA research.
Below is a transcript of the interview.
Gabriella Power:
Joining us now is Adam Creighton, Senior Fellow and Chief Economist at the IPA. Adam, great to see you. Look, just a few days after the fiery exchange between Zelensky and Trump and JD Vance, it appears the relationship between the US and Ukraine is going in the wrong direction. Zelensky told the Associated Press that a deal to end the war is still very, very far away. What an optimistic message to send. And now Donald Trump has paused all military aid to Ukraine. Look, we all want this war to end. We want a deal to ensure that Russia never invades Ukraine again, but at the moment, it’s not looking good and it’s playing out for the world to see. What do you make of it?
Adam Creighton:
Yeah, look, certainly, it’s been a very emotional few days, I think, for many people in the international community. I think it was rather inadvisable of Zelensky to say that he thought the war was going to last a very, very long time. Just remember, one of Donald Trump’s core election promises from which he won all seven swing states was that he would bring this war to a close.
Actually, he said at the time, in 24 hours, I think, which, of course, has not happened. But nevertheless, he’s promised to bring this war to an end, and I don’t think that is what he wanted to hear. But I think it’s also worth pointing out that so far this has all just been rhetoric. Nothing has actually changed yet. There’s no deal emerged with Russia. It’s just a lot of words. A lot of people are upset.
But I think we have to wait and see what the ultimate deal is going to be. And that relates both to the minerals deal with Ukraine, which I think is still uncertain, and also the deal with Russia, which is still uncertain. Trump has still not met with Putin yet. That was planned. We still don’t know when that’s going to be. But the bottom line is Trump promised to end this war, and he’s going to do everything to try to do that. And I don’t necessarily think that that’s a bad thing, but look, let’s just wait and see.
Gabriella Power:
Yeah, that’s a fair point. But what did you make of the exchange in the Oval Office when Zelensky appeared to kind of cast doubt that diplomacy would even work?
Adam Creighton:
Well, look, you have to try diplomacy. The Biden administration refused to even speak to the leader of Russia. That’s somewhat crazy in my view. All throughout the Cold War, US presidents would speak to Russian and Soviet leaders, even though they were completely opposed to each other, basically on all ideological issues, but they still spoke. But under the Biden administration, there was no communication whatsoever.
So I think that was somewhat childish and petulant, if you ask me. So I think talking is good. It might lead to an outcome. And I think in the interest of humanity, we want to hope that it does lead to an outcome. On the other hand, Zelensky has one-fifth of his country occupied by a foreign power so I can understand that he wants to keep fighting. But on the other hand, do American taxpayers want to still keep funding this war? It’s not an easy issue. I don’t think there are any easy answers to this.
Gabriella Power:
No, of course. It’s very complicated. And there has been a pretty significant shift in the way Americans are now viewing the war and how they view Ukraine’s leader. It appears that the confidence that Americans have in Zelensky has plummeted. The percentage of those who are confident that Zelensky will do the right thing has gone from 72% down to 48%. 41% of Americans believe that US support for Ukraine has been too much, and 78%, that’s very high, actually support a peace deal being negotiated between Russia and Ukraine. Let’s just look at this analysis that’s been on CNN.
CNN Presenter:
Feelings towards Zelensky have changed also dramatically. Look at this. Confidence Zelensky will do the right thing when it comes to world affairs, back in 2022, it was the clear majority, 72% through the floor by 2024. Just 48% of Americans say that they’re confident that Zelensky will do the right thing when it comes to world affairs. And GOP confidence has also plummeted dramatically. Now the clear majority of Republicans are not confident that Zelensky will do the right thing when it comes to world affairs.
Gabriella Power:
Adam, obviously a part of this is they are worried about their tax dollars, just how much money has been sent going over to Ukraine. But that’s probably not the full story. I think people really well and truly want to see this three-year war come to an end so soldiers stop dying.
Adam Creighton:
Yeah, look, that’s the first time that I’d seen those figures and they are just extraordinary, really. I did not think that the public’s view in the US would change so much, but I think it’s testament to the impact that Donald Trump is having on US public opinion. There’s a very big chunk of Americans who believe what he says, especially Republicans. And basically, those percentages have tracked what President Trump has been saying. But I think also that this war, it’s over three years now. Some people say a million people have died. This is much worse than at Vietnam.
This is much, much worse in terms of lives lost from the Western point of view. So I think people do want to see it ending. My personal view was that it was lost right up front when the West decided not to go all in and to actually fight Russia. It just basically gave enough money and enough support for Ukraine to hold them back, but clearly, that’s just a path to more and more death. And I think the realisation now, whether it’s London or Washington, is that those countries are not willing to actually put their troops on the ground and fight Russia for obvious reasons. So there has to be some sort of diplomatic solution.
Gabriella Power:
And it’s really sad to hear that Zelensky thinks that this war isn’t going to end for a long, long time. That essentially means that we’re just going to have more days, weeks, months, of people dying over this war. Anyway, I still hope that a peace deal can be reached. But questions are also being asked after Zelensky revealed just this year, three years into the war, that he’s missing $100 billion sent from the United States. Let’s listen to this.
President Volodymyr Zelensky:
Look, as the President of a warring country, I tell you, we recieved just over 75. That is, 100 billion of these 177 or 200, some people even say, we have never recieved. And that is important.
Gabriella Power:
$100 billion, that is not a small amount of money. And it’s strange that this was only really raised this year after the election. Now, FBI Director Kash Patel has spoken out about this and I’m sure he is supported by many American taxpayers that would actually like to know what happened to the $100 billion that Zelensky claims he never received. This is what Kash Patel had to say.
Kash Patel:
I’ve asked this Congress to investigate, where has this money gone? The American people are owed that answer because it’s our money, it’s our tax payer dollars.
Jan Jekielek:
And there’s a lot of really good reason to be concerned because the Ukraine was known as a place of corruption, a place for money laundering.
Kash Patel:
Yeah. It’s not like we sent $100 billion, as if that was even a small number to begin with, right, we’ve sent a hundred times that to one country. I don’t know how this Congress is allowed to get away with it.
Gabriella Power:
Yeah, it’s an extraordinary amount of money. Are you confident we’re going to get the answers here?
Adam Creighton:
Well, look, I hope so, but yes, it is an extraordinary amount of money. So extraordinary, I thought that something may have been lost in translation, actually, with the comments in the first place, but it is just such a large amount. But I think it goes to the limits of foreign governments funding other governments. They can’t control the money. They don’t really know where it goes when it arrives.
I think it’s surely perfectly reasonable for American taxpayers, many of whom who’ve just been getting checks for hundreds of dollars here and there in California for bushfires or for floods in other states, and then they see these huge sums of money going to a foreign government of a country that they couldn’t even place on a map. You can understand, at least, surely, the anger of ordinary Americans about this potentially lost money.
And I think it’s also a reminder, people need to be cautious about being too enthusiastic in their support for various politicians or governments when we don’t yet know the full story about where all this money’s gone. There could well be stories come out in coming weeks and months of extremely high graft, which will be very embarrassing for some parties to the war.
Gabriella Power:
Absolutely. After the heated exchange in the Oval Office between Zelensky, Trump, and JD Vance, Piers Morgan reshared an interview he did with President Bill Clinton in 2013. And Bill Clinton said that he had a really good blunt relationship with Putin. He said that the right strategy is to be brutally honest in private and avoid embarrassing them in public. Now, President Clinton also confirms that Putin kept his word on the deals that they made together, and that’s pretty relevant now when you hear Trump saying what he has to say, and then Zelensky is seeming to throw doubt that diplomacy could even work. Adam, what do you make of it?
Adam Creighton:
Well, look, President Putin’s been around for 25 years or so, I think. He said a lot of things. I’m sure he’s broken his word many times, and he’s kept his word many times. That interview, it was 2013, I think, and Bill Clinton was almost painting a flattering picture of Putin. I’m sure different former leaders have different views. Look, at the end of the day, nations don’t really have friends, I think.
Many statesmen have said they have interests and they basically behave according to those interests. That’s the case for the United States, it’s the case for China, it’s the case for Russia, essentially, when you strip away all the rhetoric. So look, I think we just have to assess any deal with Putin that arises and hope that he does keep his word, but there are no guarantees in diplomacy, of course.
Gabriella Power:
Of course. Now, Donald Trump has a message to Americans, and he says that we should spend less time worrying about Putin and more time worrying about migrant rape gangs, drug lords, murderers, and people from mental institutions entering our country so that we don’t end up like Europe. He certainly knows how to speak pretty strongly. How does this resonate, do you think, with the American people?
Adam Creighton:
Yeah, well, look, I think the timing was extremely good with that tweet. I thought we saw overnight, or a few days ago, a car ploughing into more people in Germany, which goes to their extremely troubled system of multiculturalism there and the general narrative that Europe is in decline. So I think Trump is right. I mentioned earlier, most Americans cannot place Ukraine on a map, and I think that they’d be far more concerned about local crime issues, inflation, cost of living, and so forth than they could be about a foreign war that’s on the other side of the world. So I think, once again, Trump is just illustrating that he’s a canny politician. And I think so far in his first few months of the presidency, his popularity at least hasn’t fallen in my understanding.
Gabriella Power:
That’s right. Look, finally, Elon Musk appeared on the Joe Rogan podcast where he sat down for another three-hour interview and he revealed more about DOGE waste that is coming to light. And he also doubled down on this huge claim that the Biden administration refused the offer from SpaceX to rescue astronauts because of political reasons. Look at this.
Elon Musk:
We offered to bring them back early. This offer was rejected by the Biden administration.
Joe Rogan:
Why?
Elon Musk:
For political reasons.
Joe Rogan:
That’s so crazy.
Elon Musk:
There’s no way that they’re going to make anyone who’s supporting Trump look good.
Joe Rogan:
Wow. What do you think they would’ve done if they had won? How would they get those people back?
Elon Musk:
No, they can only get them back with a SpaceX spacecraft, but they pushed the return date past the inauguration date.
Joe Rogan:
Wow.
Elon Musk:
Yeah.
Joe Rogan:
So they would’ve let you do it, but after the… Wow. So it would’ve been them authorising you-
Elon Musk:
There isn’t anyone else to do it.
Joe Rogan:
NASA can’t get them?
Elon Musk:
The SpaceX Dragon spacecraft is the only one that is considered safe enough to bring them back. NASA concluded that the Boeing spacecraft was not safe, so that’s why they’re stuck there.
Gabriella Power:
Adam, it’s a shocking claim.
Adam Creighton:
Look, it certainly is. It’s hard to believe, but it doesn’t really surprise me. Politics is a nasty business. Certainly, the animosity between the Biden administration and Elon Musk was very intense, was very significant. So from a political point of view, they would not have wanted to give him a win. But we have to think of these poor two people stuck up there. They were meant to be there for eight days, they’ve been there for eight months.
We can only hope that they come back successfully soon. But I think the broader point here too is that it’s a private sector, really, that’s the engine of innovation and scientific advancement here. You’ve got the US government that is relying on Musk to bring these people back. That is somewhat embarrassing in a way. But as I said, just a reminder that the innovation is in the private sector, not the government sector.
Gabriella Power:
Absolutely. Adam Creighton, Senior Fellow and Chief Economist at the IPA, thank you so much for joining us.
Adam Creighton:
Thanks very much for having me.
This transcript with Adam Creighton talking on The Power Hour Sky News Australia from 4 March 2025 has been edited for clarity.
