Chris Smith:
Let’s talk to senior fellow and chief economist with the Institute of Public Affairs, Adam Creighton, also a columnist with the Australian newspaper. Adam, a very good morning to you.
Adam Creighton:
Good morning, Chris. Great to be here.
Chris Smith:
Yeah. What this will do is add weight to the Prime Minister’s call for AI guardrails despite Donald Trump’s opposition to it all. Given what we’ve heard from Anthony Albanese on AI, is Angus Taylor right to question the timing of such a revelation?
Adam Creighton:
Oh yes, he certainly is. It looks very suspicious actually on two counts. I mean, I think firstly, morally, the public has a right to know the day after the government finds out, or very soon, I should think, when this breach occurred. You’re saying it’s early June, that’s a long time ago. That’s certainly being kept private because there is some level of embarrassment to it, of course. For the government, they should have systems that can’t be compromised.
Chris Smith:
Yeah, systems that can’t be compromised. Or if they are, an alarm goes off and we know it’s happened.
Adam Creighton:
Yes. But the other thing, well, Sam Altman I believe is out there saying that this is kind of a mountain out of a molehill. I mean, of course he would say that, but I think there needs to be significant fines for when these companies do this. Obviously you can’t put the company in jail, but I mean, there needs to be huge fines if they’re caught to doing this, maybe $50-million fine or something.
Chris Smith:
I wonder whether that exists under any kind of legal framework where we could do such a thing.
Adam Creighton:
Oh, I’m sure it would exist in a footnote somewhere. Very significant powers the government has.
Chris Smith:
Now, this business about guardrails. In light of what we know, and in light of the fact that people are a little bit sensitive about what AI could become, even those that have created AI are saying that the likes of Elon Musk and others. So guardrails, I don’t think will stop the positive and constructive use of AI to drive productivity, to drive the economy. But what I think will stop us jumping on this AI boat, Adam, are Chris Bowen’s renewable rules for AI data centres. Renewables only in Australia. Thank you very much.
Adam Creighton:
Yes. Look, I think it doesn’t make much economic sense to have a data centre that’s fueled only by renewables. It would make the power extremely expensive, and I just don’t understand why supposedly there are many data centres being proposed for Australia. So there must be other regulatory reasons why they have to be here. But yeah, they certainly are a drain on the power.
Chris Smith:
Yeah. Still on power, the coalition has dumped net-zero and most of Bowen’s renewable slush funds. Finally, a clear economically responsible power plan release yesterday.
Adam Creighton:
Yes, I think that’s very much the case, but it’s just been a complete 180, if you like, for the coalition on energy. And look, I think the Institute of Public Affairs, we should take some pride in that because we’ve been pushing that far earlier and far more strongly than any other institution in Australia.
Chris Smith:
True.
Adam Creighton:
And finally, first, I think it was the national party, wasn’t it? They dumped it first and now the Liberal Party is agreeing. Although it is strange that we’re seeing these stories, because I thought they’d already dumped it many months ago, but maybe there was just no formal document.
But what was interesting today is the attempt to get rid of the ban on nuclear power in Australia. That is very sensible. And of course, it’s a sensitive issue. They went to the last election with that and of course got thrashed. But I think just in that three years even, I think the views on climate change and the views on renewable energy per se, they’ve diminished somewhat, I would say.
Chris Smith:
Yeah, the time is right. I said to Dan Tean on air yesterday, I said, “You’ve got to keep away from what Peter Dutton did do in that election campaign, which is not take baby steps. He leapt into saying, ‘Hey, these are the locations where the nuclear reactors are going to be built, so there.’ No, start again. Talk about the legality. Explain to the public exactly the legalities that are standing in the way of a potential use of nuclear baseload power, and then explain how safe nuclear base load power will be for the world.”
Adam Creighton:
Yes. And look, I hope, but there’s still going to be many windmills and solar panels in the country. It’s not like if the coalition wins the election that they’re reversing all that. And I don’t see any mention of building a new coal plant anywhere, which would be very sensible. And it’s certainly what our overseas friends do with our coal. They use it in coal plants. It’s being used more and more all around the world.
Chris Smith:
And they build those high efficient, low emission coal plants too.
Adam Creighton:
Yes, yes, that’s right. And the IPA is currently working on the cost of rolling out all the wind turbines, and also replacing the ones that are going to expire in a few years. And the total cost is about $222 billion. So this is a research paper coming out soon, which we’re working on. It’s just looking at wind, not solar, but if you just look at wind, it’s going to be $222 billion of an extra wind turbine. And that’s all, I believe, still going to go ahead with some of these legislations being dropped. It’s a different… But anyway, it’s still a very pleasing move, but just watch this space.
Chris Smith:
Yeah. Now, Anthony Albanese is receiving his Atlantic Global Citizen Award shortly. He’s also going to make a speech and acceptance, no doubt, and talking about how the world order is not fit for purpose, which I see as a little bit of a jab at Donald Trump in Donald Trump’s home city, and having a dig at the president. He’s very keen to pick a fight with Donald, isn’t he? He doesn’t mind being on the opposite end of what Donald stands for.
Adam Creighton:
Yes. Well, the reason he likes doing that, of course, is for domestic political considerations, because Donald Trump is not a very popular figure in Australia. So he does that, but he also diminishes himself, I think, on the world stage doing that sort of thing. Disagreeing publicly with the president on major policies and also principles, free speech, et cetera. I mean, it’s no secret that the Trump administration hates all these duty of care type misinformation type bills that the government would like to get through. And I think it’s a real concern. I mean, it’s a fairly unorthodox Republican administration over there, and it’s very hard to predict, but Australia may end up whacked with some sort of tariff. It wouldn’t surprise me if we go down this road too vigorously.
Chris Smith:
Now, you’ve turned your focus in a column in the Australian today towards our older citizens. You point to the government’s, I guess, bleeding of retirees in order to achieve some kind of bias intergenerational equity. And yet as you write, the NDIS is a much bigger budget cost than anything that sucks value out of the budget by retirees.
Adam Creighton:
Yeah, I think that’s right. Look, this was all hooked to the intergenerational report, of course, which had a number of dubious assumptions in it, but I actually just wanted to take a step back. I mean, the core statistic that gets bandied around the most is this thing called the dependency ratio, and that’s the number of people over 65 for every hundred people of working age. And I just think that this is a, I call it a stale and increasingly irrelevant statistic, because this is age 65. I mean, many people can and want to work past 65, so there’s certainly not a dependence.
And when you go back through the history, this 65 came from when Germany lowered their defined benefit social security scheme in 1916, when of course people lived far less long lives then, also far less healthy too. So 65 may have been reasonable back then, but I think now it should be 75. That where you should start. Or even 80, given the vastly improved health of the population.
But the other point too is, so for two reasons I get annoyed when older people are called dependents, because this is also the richest generation of all. They’ve had lives and saved, they’ve got significant assets, and so they’re not a drain on taxpayers at all. Well, most of them aren’t. I mean, of course there’s some on the age pension, but we allow that because in many cases there’s people living in five and six-million homes getting the age pension. I mean, I would argue, this is just my personal view, but if you wanted to make the generation who are retired completely self-sufficient and not a drain on taxes, then why not let some of that home equity be their pension to save younger people from paying more tax? So-
Chris Smith:
Good idea.
Adam Creighton:
Go on, Chris.
Chris Smith:
I was just saying, good idea.
Adam Creighton:
Well, yes. I mean, I think there’s of course a lot of people with large super balances who own their home, and they’re the classic case. And that’s actually very common, actually. I mean, that’s a separate argument why I say 12% is too high, because the balances are already quite large, and people are retiring when they haven’t even had 9% for 40 years. In fact, they really had it for about 20 years. So just think if they’re retiring with adequate savings now, and there’s plenty of evidence that they are, then why on earth would y’all lift it to 12 at this rate?
Chris Smith:
Yeah, it’s a great point. And I’m getting more and more listeners with experience in life telling me that it’s about time we loosened those strict guidelines that superannuation accounts face, and loosen it a little bit, especially right now when people are doing it super tough.
Adam Creighton:
Oh, yeah, certainly. I mean, I think the best policy so far is One Nation’s, for sure. The only quibble I’d have is that you only do it for three years. I think it should be permanent and always an option. The default might be 12, sure. But if you go to your boss and say, look, I’d rather it as wages, what’s wrong with that?
Chris Smith:
Yeah. This is why those who criticise this policy from One Nation as irresponsible are just not serious. They are not serious. It is just a tiny piece of what they’ve saved.
Adam Creighton:
No, look, the Henry Tax Review that obviously was written by Ken Henry, he’s Labor’s favourite treasurer, sorry, Treasury Secretary, I mean, he said 9% was well and enough and you did not need to go any further than that. So really the increase to 12 is just very cynical politics. It’s just about, well, I mean, I would call it theft, really. I mean, they’re taking money off people that they shouldn’t be taking off them, and they’re giving it to these enormous, very politically powerful funds that together control about 40% of the stock exchange. That’s what it’s all about, really.
Chris Smith:
Yeah. Yep. It’s a very good point. And no doubt we’ll be speaking about this a lot more, because now the major parties are looking very seriously at releasing those strings. Thank you so much for your time, Adam. Much appreciated.
Adam Creighton:
Thanks, Chris. Thanks for having me.
Chris Smith:
Good on you. Thank you.
This transcript with Adam Creighton talking on Mornings – 2SM from 24 September 2026 has been edited for clarity.
